what is loyalty?

sarxweh · Oct 17, 2014

When Steven Segal says he is "loyal to Vladimir Putin because of V.P.'s 'contribution to the martial arts' ",

Is he speaking of agreement, appreciation, or loyalty?

This being one of many possible examples of loyalty (countrymen, spouses, brand recognition, trust in general, belief in god, the police force, etc.)...

What is loyalty?

quatona · Oct 18, 2014

Usually, I think, such statements don´t mean much (beyond trying to express a certain positive feeling) and even less we can know what the practical implications might be.
It gets interesting, though, when people start accusing each other of being illoyal.

sarxweh · Oct 18, 2014

disloyalty does betray a certain meaning...

I wonder, is it possible to enjoy disloyalty?

I can't think of any examples myself. I guess if you could enjoy it, you probably wouldn't care either way, and would be experiencing apathy instead.

We need no light to experience the dark, but we must have an experience of light to understand the dark. Maybe loyalty is comparable because it is experiential. A thing to be seen and not heard, so to speak.

juvenissun · Oct 18, 2014

sarxweh said:
When Steven Segal says he is "loyal to Vladimir Putin because of V.P.'s 'contribution to the martial arts' ",

Is he speaking of agreement, appreciation, or loyalty?

This being one of many possible examples of loyalty (countrymen, spouses, brand recognition, trust in general, belief in god, the police force, etc.)...

What is loyalty?

Loyalty is the absolute commitment. It supersedes the recognition of right and wrong. So when loyal to someone or something, then one uses his action, instead of his brain.

Example: when one is loyal to a king, he would obey a seemingly wrong order from the king without having a second thought.

So, we should not loyal to any human.

sarxweh · Oct 18, 2014

juvenissun said:
Loyalty is the absolute commitment. It supersedes the recognition of right and wrong. So when loyal to someone or something, then one use his action, instead of his brain.

Example: when one is loyal to a king, he would obey a seemingly wrong order from the king without having a second thought.

Robotism?

juvenissun · Oct 18, 2014

sarxweh said:
Robotism?

That is the minimum requirement. And there are many more.
For example, you not only loyal, as consequence, you also love, respect, etc.

Example: When the king is in danger, you protect him with your life, even it is not an order.

So, there are, indeed, different degree of loyalty. But, the lowest degree of loyalty is still a loyalty.

sarxweh · Oct 18, 2014

juvenissun said:
That is the minimum requirement. And there are many more.
For example, you not only loyal, as consequence, you also love, respect, etc.

Example: When the king is in danger, you protect him with your life, even it is not an order.

So, there are, indeed, different degree of loyalty. But, the lowest degree of loyalty is still a loyalty.

So, loyalty is absolute or its not loyalty at all.

Would a low degree of loyalty be something like loyalty with less intelligence?

juvenissun · Oct 18, 2014

sarxweh said:
So, loyalty is absolute or its not loyalty at all.

Would a low degree of loyalty be something like loyalty with less intelligence?

Seemingly so. But the quality of loyalty should not be evaluated only on the degree of intelligence.

Example, If 10 people are all loyal to a king, the king should not treat them based only on their degree of intelligence. Some less intelligent people may have higher capacity in doing certain things.

So, in addition to the basic requirement of loyalty, the rest are not the problem related to loyalty, but are problems related to the capacity of serving the master. The one serves "better" would seemingly be more loyal. The king may use one to serve as the defense minister. But he would use another one to serve him as his close body guard. Of course, you can imagine, the salary to them could also be different.

sarxweh · Oct 18, 2014

juvenissun said:
Seemingly so. But the quality of loyalty should not be evaluated only on the degree of intelligence.

Example, If 10 people are all loyal to a king, the king should not treat them based only on their degree of intelligence. Some less intelligent people may have higher capacity in doing certain things.

So, in addition to the basic requirement of loyalty, the rest are not the problem related to loyalty, but are problems related to the capacity of serving the master. The one serves "better" would seemingly be more loyal. The king may use one to serve as the defense minister. But he would use another one to serve him as his close body guard. Of course, you can imagine, the salary to them could also be different.

Perhaps loyalty has its own unique form of intelligence, which intelligence itself could interfere with.

juvenissun · Oct 18, 2014

sarxweh said:
Perhaps loyalty has its own unique form of intelligence, which intelligence itself could interfere with.

Example?

sarxweh · Oct 18, 2014

As you said earlier

juvenissun said:
That is the minimum requirement. And there are many more.
For example, you're not only loyal, as a consequence, you also love, respect, etc.

Example: When the king is in danger, you protect him with your life, even it is not an order.

So, there are, indeed, different degrees of loyalty. But, the lowest degree of loyalty is still a loyalty.

If the logic of loyalty surmounts/precedes the logic of self preservation, you can find that story written in fairy tale, love, a good marriage, and even domesticated animals I suppose.

A primary example would be "the good news", since it is news of the completed loyalty of God to his people, and his people to him (in Christ). In this example the complete loyalty of both parties is performed with a logic that supersedes intelligence on a general scale.

Emmy · Oct 18, 2014

Dear sarxweh. What is loyalty? May I show you? In Matthew 22: 35-40:
Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters, who loyally follow these important words. In Matthew 7: 7-10:
we are told to "ask and you will receive." There we ask God for Love and Joy,
thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. God will see our loyal following of His Commands, and God will approve and bless us. We might
stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again." We will give up our selfish and loveless wants and wishes, and we start loving and caring. God id Love, and God wants loyal sons and daughters, who Love God with all their beings,
and love their neighbour as they love themselves. The Holy Spirit will help and change us, and Jesus our Saviour will guide us: JESUS IS THE WAY.
I say this with love, sarxweh. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

juvenissun · Oct 18, 2014

sarxweh said:
As you said earlier

If the logic of loyalty surmounts/precedes the logic of self preservation, you can find that story written in fairy tale, love, a good marriage, and even domesticated animals I suppose.

A primary example would be "the good news", since it is news of the completed loyalty of God to his people, and his people to him (in Christ). In this example the complete loyalty of both parties is performed with a logic that supersedes intelligence on a general scale.

Yes, intelligence is a fatal hindrance to loyalty if it is put before the loyalty.

Besides, God does not loyal to anyone or anything. God only loves people and keeps His promises.

sarxweh · Oct 20, 2014

juvenissun said:
Yes, intelligence is a fatal hindrance to loyalty if it is put before the loyalty.

Besides, God does not loyal to anyone or anything. God only loves people and keeps His promises.

Isn't that loyalty?

Blessedj01 · Oct 20, 2014

As far as I'm aware Putin has only made contributions to Judo, not martial arts as a whole.

I would say that Steven Segal says a lot of dumb things.

sarxweh · Oct 20, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
As far as I'm aware Putin has only made contributions to Judo, not martial arts as a whole.

I would say that Steven Segal says a lot of dumb things.

So if you were Segal, you'd be like nah

sarxweh · Oct 20, 2014

juvenissun said:
Besides, God does not loyal to anyone or anything. God only loves people and keeps His promises.

How could god love someone and keep a promise without being loyal?

juvenissun · Oct 20, 2014

sarxweh said:
Isn't that loyalty?

A king does not loyal to his soldiers. For example.
A king will not sacrifice himself for his soldiers.

Blessedj01 · Oct 20, 2014

sarxweh said:
So if you were Segal, you'd be like nah

Well, I have a green belt in Judo myself but I don't think I'd say I was loyal to Putin.

I'd say I have respect for his contributions to Judo/martial arts.

Blessedj01 · Oct 20, 2014

sarxweh said:
How could god love someone and keep a promise without being loyal?

God is loyal. Everyone is just playing English-teacher.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-loyalty.html

what is loyalty?

sarxweh

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"God"? What do you mean??

sarxweh

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... and God saw that it was good.

sarxweh

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... and God saw that it was good.

sarxweh

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... and God saw that it was good.

sarxweh

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... and God saw that it was good.

sarxweh

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Senior Veteran

... and God saw that it was good.

sarxweh

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Blessedj01

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sarxweh

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sarxweh

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... and God saw that it was good.

Blessedj01

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Blessedj01

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