What is judging?

The judging a judge does is not the same as what Christ commanded us to do personally. A judge is picked to be one professionally by the government. They are necessary to keep order.

As far as personally judging goes, it's best to not judge others no matter what they do. You can judge yourself harshly (if anyone at all and even then only so far) but, save mercy for others. Not judgement. I've found this has made me happiest.

Jim Langston said:

The judgement denounced is κρίνετε when after we make a determination we impose sentance and is warned against.

Click to expand...

Exactly, what we have is a compromised sense of judging. The break down of the Greek helps as you have pointed out. Often people say "you should not judge" but they really do not know what they are saying and have been taught to compromise essentially.

We are to judge what goes on in the church.
We are to judge between truth and error, good and evil, things of God and of darkness.
We do not judge in the biblical sense, finding someone guilty then carrying out specific punishment.

From what I see there is no real biblical judgement going on in Christiandom in the biblical sense as in the OT when people were judged it was followed by something like stoning. Thus we can safely say when we call out sin or heresy this is not "judgement" in the way people try and apply it, no one is getting stoned, but rather their actions being pin pointed as ungodly.

Great topic btw as I have been very frustrated with this for a LONG LONG time.

Isn't the judging referred to in scripture the result of telling a person what will spiritually happen as a result of their behavior? It is scripturally required of our pastors and deacons to protect the church and to administer scriptural directions to us all. If the fruit we bear is not consistent with scripture then we need to self examine. If we continue acting that way we need to be addressed by the church leaders. Once we have been addressed orderly and sufficiently and still refuse to bend to God's will, we need to vacate the pew or be vacated. So, telling a homosexual their behaviour is a sin, is not judging. That is clearly stated in scripture. Telling them they can't join our church as long as they are practicing homosexual behavior, that is scripture. However, telling them they are absolutely going to hell for what they did last week, that is judging. Where they are going is up to God. Not man. Even telling them they are certainly saved when you don't know the commitment they made, that is judging. If they are saved is up to God. Not man. But one point I would like make in relation to homosexual behavior and sin is this. If you stole something that made you wrong. A sinner. But it did not make you a thief as you have a means for restitution and forgiveness. If you had a homosexual encounter that event made you a sinner. But it did not make you a homosexual as you have a means for restitution and forgiveness. But if you steal every day or set up conditions to steal, if you live the life of a homosexual either mentally or physically and you do not seek forgiveness, then you are a thief if you steal every day and a homosexual if you desire or do live with a person of like sex in a husband/wife relationship. Your life's mission then is to refuse God every day. That certainly is not the behaviour expected of members of our congregation and I am certain we would first speak to them and ask them to change their ways. If they didn't, then we would demand of our pastor and deacons that they be asked to leave the church. If they refused and all else failed, they would be escorted off the premises, by force if necessary, after filing trespass charges. Once you have spoken to them privately and followed scripture, that is not passing judgement. That is fulfilling scripture.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi JH. I think you've touched on a super important aspect of Judgment. Just because we have the right answer doesn't mean we have the right spirit.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure we've got the right, either of those. Even if we've got the right spirit (which is more likely), the right answer? I'm looking around at billions of professing Christians all disagreeing with one another over the "right answer" and I'm looking at you and asking, "You're absolutely sure about the 'right answer'?"

Granted, I'm not even sure we're meaning the same thing by use of the abstract "judgement"

Endtime Survivors said:

lol, judgment! Judgment! XD

Click to expand...

Note that I'm not saying "don't examine things", "don't give advice when it's asked". If someone asks for my judgment in a matter, I'll give it. Especially when we're mutually "examining" ourselves and our understanding, within the congregation of the church itself.

Endtime Survivors said:

Life is the practice range. We're meant to become sharpshooters!

Click to expand...

Well in this case there are unsuspecting people milling about on the target range. I'm not about to start popping off shots and risk hurting someone. I take judgment very seriously. If I'm not a sharpshooter, I don't want the gun anywhere near my hands. Especially since not only can I hurt and possibly kill someone with incompetent use of the fire-arm, but it's well known that the ammunition is prone to ricocheting to hit the wielder straight between the eyes.

To me, judging is thinking or saying something about a person, or saying it to the person, without knowing or understanding their situation, or having lack of care. I am always being judged; about my weight, my appearance, my anxiety, and probably how I struggle to work and start a college education. Most often than not, these judgements are made by Christian's. It is hurtful and it is wrong; we are told to not judge others. Easier said than done, of course, but I feel like instead of judging we can be loving.

I don't think judging is a good thing in most cases.

If we look at Paul and his Epistles to the churches, Paul was not swatting at small flies, Paul was handing big issues. And when Paul discussed people in the church dealing with each other, Paul's recommendation was when two people have an issue that those two people discuss it, the two initially involved.

We are to go to each other first and foremost out of love for that person, to bring them back into reconciliation with God. So that would mean that we would have to know the person well enough to

1. Be sure of their sin.
2. Know that they had not repented, because if they had then they would not be out of reconciliation with God.
3. Between two believers, not the gossip mongering that some call helping.
4. That that believer is committing to bringing the other person back to reconciliation with God (Good old follow through, walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

There is much more but I will just start here.

Judgement is a weird thing in that it makes us (the judgor feel good) because judgement makes the one judging feel good, rarely done in agape love for the one in sin.

LizzyMae said:

To me, judging is thinking or saying something about a person, or saying it to the person, without knowing or understanding their situation, or having lack of care. I am always being judged; about my weight, my appearance, my anxiety, and probably how I struggle to work and start a college education. Most often than not, these judgements are made by Christian's. It is hurtful and it is wrong; we are told to not judge others. Easier said than done, of course, but I feel like instead of judging we can be loving.

Click to expand...

Good thoughts. That is why the two greatest commandments Christ left us with are love God and love each other.

Love is much harder than judgement.

I will also add that it is the Holy Spirit that is the primary convictor of sin in each of Christ's Own. So unsubstantiated judgement that benefits anyone but the other person is counter intuitive to the good work that God is doing in us. Gossip and slander are spiritual abuses. And I've never heard anything but sadness and confusion about other Christians come from spiritual abuse.

It put's God in a bad light.

Jim Langston said:

Because some people aren't aware that whatever they are doing is sin or condemned. It's to help save their soul.

Click to expand...

AMEN.. I soooooooooooooo wish someone had called out my blatant sins when I was calling myself a "Christian".. It's embarrassing looking back now and seeing how I was conformed to the world's way of thinking and doing, calling myself a "believer".. and having NO idea. Yep, no church attendance after elementary school, unchurched "Christian" swimming down the stream with the fish.

Everybody is stuck in the old testament regarding judging. Jesus did indeed say, "judge not lest you be judged." But who did he say it to? He spoke to the Jews in the old testament. Jesus came for the Jews, not the Gentiles (Matt 15:24). God says something very different to the born again believer in the new testament.

The new testament didn't begin until the day of Pentecost. Forget the pretty titles "The Old Testament" and "The New Testament" in your bibles. Man put those titles there, not God and they are wrong. They've cause no end of confusion to the sincere believer.

The new birth became available for the first time on the day of Pentecost when holy spirit descended on the 12 disciples. After that it was "Christ in them" (Col 1:27). That is what makes a Christian a Christian. You are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6, notice "he hath" - past tense). Nobody in the OT, including the gospels had Christ in them because it wasn't available until Christ ascended. Ten days after that was the day of Pentecost and people could get born again. Just before ascending into heaven, Jesus told his disciples to tarry in Jerusalem to wait for the promise of the father when they would be baptised in holy spirit (Acts 1:5). Before the day of Pentecost the only baptism was water. Wouldn't you think that baptism with holy spirit is better than water? Of course!

God chose you from before the world was ever created (Eph 1:4) You have already been judged and found righteous. In fact you have the righteousness of God (Rom 3:22, Rom 10:4, et. al.). Please don't tell me I'm arrogant for saying I'm as righteous as God. I'm just saying what the word says. If you say I'm not as righteous as God, then you are arrogant. Do you think you know better than God? He said I'm righteous and that settles it. Just because it doesn't "feel right" doesn't make it less true.

Why doesn't the churches teach this stuff? The churches have completely failed sincere Christians who want to know the truth. They mostly teach tradition, not the word! Tradition makes the word of god of none effect (Matt 15:6). The false doctrine of the church is the reason our country is in such bad shape, not Congress, Trump, Obama, Clinton, or any other man. If the church taught the God's word the world would be a much better place. Thanks to the churches, most Christians have no idea of who they are in Christ Jesus, nor the power they have.

Christians need to learn what they have in Christ Jesus. You won't find it anywhere in the old testament, including the gospels. Paul's epistles explain what the born again believer has and it's light years ahead of anything the Jews had in the OT. Break out of the old testament guilt trips and get into what's happening today, after the day of Pentecost.

rrobsr said:

Why doesn't the churches teach this stuff? The churches have completely failed sincere Christians who want to know the truth. They mostly teach tradition, not the word! Tradition makes the word of god of none effect (Matt 15:6).

Christians need to learn what they have in Christ Jesus. You won't find that in the old testament, including the gospels. Paul's epistles explain what the born again believer has and it's light years ahead of anything the Jews had in the OT. Break out of the old testament guilt trips and get into what's happening today, after the day of Pentecost.

Click to expand...

I hate to agree but bad teaching and straying from the Bible is too prevelant today. If people knew truth, the truth would stand on it's own.

Read your bible people. Don't depend on someone to tell you because half of them do not know and will tell you wrong.

LizzyMae said:

To me, judging is thinking or saying something about a person, or saying it to the person, without knowing or understanding their situation, or having lack of care. I am always being judged; about my weight, my appearance, my anxiety, and probably how I struggle to work and start a college education. Most often than not, these judgements are made by Christian's. It is hurtful and it is wrong; we are told to not judge others. Easier said than done, of course, but I feel like instead of judging we can be loving.

Click to expand...

You have no need to feel any shortcomings about yourself whatsoever. God chose you in him before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). You are as righteous as God (Rom 3:22). You are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6, notice "hath" is past tense). You have Christ in you (Col 1:27). You can do greater works than Jesus (John 14:12). There is much more, but you have to look in the epistles of Paul (Romans to Thessalonians) to see what you really are in Christ Jesus. It's not in the old testament.

Look at what Paul thought about being judged by others:

1 Cor 4:3-4,
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

You are nothing less than an incredibly beautiful woman of God and don't ever let anyone talk you out of it!

Jim Langston said:

Good post. The only thing I would do different is invite a lesbian/gay friend to church, but they should not be allowed to become a member until they repent. I think this is a matter of opinion, though. Some may feel that only sanctified people should be allowed in the church building at all. Some, like me, feel that the church building is the perfect place to learn about repentance and salvation. Do we only invite saved people to church, or do we invite everyone so that they can learn to be saved? An argument for either case could be shown from the bible equally, I think, but I would consider not inviting someone because they are homosexual as the definition of judging. Note: I see a great distiction between attending church and being a (voting) member of church, others may not, and it may be true that in some congregations no distinction is made.

Also, I consider the church to be comprised of those who have repented and are born again, not a Christian tabernacle.

Click to expand...

Your statement here goes to the very aspect of judging. How would anyone of us know exactly who is saved or who is not saved? In order to do that a judgement has to made and that is not correct. See i can judge your action based on the bible. I can say that if you stole you have sinned but if I saw that you are doomed to hell because of your sin then that would be me judging. But also, it works the other way as well. You see an elder who looks good, does really good stuff, is always in church, good attitude and you judge that he is saved. The only person who knows that for sure is God. So you cannot make any judgement like this to determine who gets to come to church or not. Membership is a different case but when it comes to who can enter the church, you cannot judge anyone to be unworthy because that is knowledge that only God has.

The bottom line is that when it comes to someone's final destination, we are not to judge. We can judge someone's actions but not their destiny. Their salvation is between them and God.

Jim Langston said:

I agree with Jesus when asked how to enter the kingdom of God and Jesus said follow the commandments.

Click to expand...

He said that to the Jews in the Old Testament, before the day of Pentecost. We are born again believers in the new testament. Surely, there must be some difference in how God deals with Jews in the OT and born again believers in the NT. When Jesus spoke to the woman it was still OT. All the gospels are OT. They are before the day of Pentecost when the NT began. Forget those pretty titles before Genesis and Matthew in your bible. They weren't God's idea. Man put them there and they've caused no end of confusion and robbed sincere Christians of the knowledge of who they really are in Christ Jesus.

Which of the commandments that Christ ended (Rom 10:4) do we need to follow? According to Romans there is none, so what exactly are you following?

Do you understand the mystery hidden in God from the foundation of the world (Eph 3:3-5)? Most Christians don't know about it because the churches don't teach it even though it's "what's happening" today. It's not like the old testament I'll tell you. Quite a bit different. Like night and day.