What is it with divorce & old/new testament

HisdaughterJen said:

So, if a man (who claims to be a Christian) abuses his wife (physically or emotionally), or engages in pornography, or has inappropriate relationships with other women and refuses to stop, is he then considered an "unbeliever" who has left or abandoned his marriage even if he hasn't actually left?


Furthermore, if he claims to be a Christian and doesn't produce the fruits of being a Christian, then he is NOT a Christian. In fact, if he goes to church on Sunday and then comes home and abuses his wife or enjoys porn or calls up his girlfriends, is that the behavior of a Christian? Just because someone goes to church doesn't make them a Christian.

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This reminds me of the saying..."Standing in your garage does not make you a car anymore than standing in a church makes you a christian."

First of all, I'd like to state that God's word is never contradicting.

First, Read Matt. 19:3-12

Note in v.3, they ask Him is it lawful for a man to put away (divorce) his wife for every cause. He tells them that God makes the married husband and wife one flesh, and for no man to put them asunder (separate them, divorce them).

Then, in v.7, they ask Him why did Moses give a writing of divorcement? Please understand that a divorce clearly separates them but does not remarry them to others. Look at v.8, He tells them that Moses did that because of the hardness of their hearts. In v.9, He clearly lets them know that he too allows for a divorce on the grounds of fornication; and in the same passage he clearly tells them that if the man or the woman remarries, they are guilty of the sin of committing adultery.

Now re-read verses 10-12,
They state in v. 10, that to them it is not good to marry at all since he just told them that they cannot remarry without committing adultery.
Then, in v. 11 He lets them know that all men will not recieve what he said. Then in v.12, he tells them that there are three ways to live without sex (alone), like eunuchs (sexless), (1) born (virgins), (2) by man (castration) and (3) for the Kingdom of Heaven.

In your case, I propose you have decided the latter of the three. God bless you and I urge you to seek the Lord with a whole heart because the enemy is going to come against you.

I also wanted to tell you to Read I Corith.7:10,11...

This is what the Word tells you to do when or if your decision to leave ever gets too overbearing.

God loves and He will never leave you, and I love you enough to tell you the Truth.

Jesus was responding to the condesending questions from the pharisies, Jesus said he did not come to disolve the old testimate or make new rules just to emphsisze the rules that already existed (alot people in the church I used to go to before I started my divorce I dont even think read the old testimate. There has been 2000 years of translation and inturpretation, it can even be argued that pre marital sex is not sin as pre marital sex is linked to fornicatoin but fornication can not be linked to the word porneia which was used to refer to temple prostitution, I dont really want to get into that debate with some of the nasty people on this forum but the bottom line is pray about it and if God is giving you an open door then take it (which I believe he will) there are several reasons the bible gives for a lagit divorce in 1 cor I believe abuse to be synonomus with abandonment or sexual neglect. I believe the reason divorce was so frowned upon is because men were divorcing women for any reason (the woman next door had a nice butt whatever) and divorced his wife and left her out in the cold for a petty reason. You should dedicate alot of time to read your bible cover to cover and pray, do not listen to anyone at church just listen to what God tells you, when you read the bible in its entirety you will see a theme and you will see the context and it is not one of condemnation, if however you pick out a few scriptures here and there or even whole chapters of certian books of the bible you can scare tactic someone into all kinds of things people that do this are sick and this is how cults form, it will teach you the character of God and that truth will set you free. Remember God did not design hell for people and if you believe in him and that Jesus saved you he is not going to send you there on the drop of a hat. God came to earth as Jesus and his life pretty much sucked so he knows what we go through, life is already hard enough without getting beat or abused why would God want you to go through that. Nothing changes not even the ignoracne of people as enstine said "only 2 things are infinate the universe and human stupidity and im not sure about the former", meaning he was sure human stupidity was infinate. If someone is making a recommendation that degrades your quality of life or does not better you you should question it and 99% of the time reject it. Question everything, read everything and ask God for wisdom to discern the good information from the garbage, look at every problem objectivly (what are the facts and reality), I dont care if the chruch has touted something for 100 years remember the new testimate took place 2000 years ago, QUESTION EVERYTHING, learn from your mistakes I dont think God would be to happy if you got with the same type of guy.

soulbaby2008 said:

Im so confused. The old testament is fine with divorce but christ set out new rules, even if you divorce and remarry this is still a sin. But then "Gods word never changes" quoted from the bible

But i dont understand this. Consider my situation.

After i got married my husband was physically and verbally abusive. Eventually he stopped. But he still got angry- breaking things in the house, verbal abuse, etc.. We have been married for 6 years and i have seperated from him two weeks ago.

I dont love him and i could never love this man. He wants me back but i dont trust him, hes manipulative. He is on the phone to me for ages, writing me long emails, he is so obsessive and theres much more to all this.

Any way I want to do the right thing by God which doesnt this mean i cannot remarry.? I dont want to live alone by myself all my life. This would would just eat away at my soul.
God saw adam was lonely so that is why he made eve. (except adam was of course single) So God does not like to us lonely!

What are your thoughts on divorce and marrage? Im so confused and upset. If marriage can turn out this bad, why cant the bible offer an open door (divorce!)

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PWinChrist said:

First of all, I'd like to state that God's word is never contradicting.

First, Read Matt. 19:3-12

Note in v.3, they ask Him is it lawful for a man to put away (divorce) his wife for every cause. He tells them that God makes the married husband and wife one flesh, and for no man to put them asunder (separate them, divorce them).

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Huh...and yet PAUL says to LET the unbeliever depart using the EXACT same word CHORIZO ('put asunder/depart), so apparently that passage you quoted isnt ALL of the relevant information.
READERS SEE->Click->>> "Let not man Put Asunder" vs "let the unbeliever depart"

Then, in v.7, they ask Him why did Moses give a writing of divorcement? Please understand that a divorce clearly separates them but does not remarry them to others. Look at v.8, He tells them that Moses did that because of the hardness of their hearts. In v.9, He clearly lets them know that he too allows for a divorce on the grounds of fornication; and in the same passage he clearly tells them that if the man or the woman remarries, they are guilty of the sin of committing adultery.

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Sorry but the exception apply to BOTH the divorce and the remarriage.
Ive seen this error before and it has no logical foundation.

Now re-read verses 10-12,
They state in v. 10, that to them it is not good to marry at all since he just told them that they cannot remarry without committing adultery.
Then, in v. 11 He lets them know that all men will not recieve what he said. Then in v.12, he tells them that there are three ways to live without sex (alone), like eunuchs (sexless), (1) born (virgins), (2) by man (castration) and (3) for the Kingdom of Heaven.

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Fallacious.
He tells them that to put away a wife to marry another, as they were doing, without her breaking the covenant is to commit adultery against her.

In your case, I propose you have decided the latter of the three. God bless you and I urge you to seek the Lord with a whole heart because the enemy is going to come against you.

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Or seek your interpretation thereof....

yes but who are we to judge who is a true follower of jesus and who is not?

That is so very true, if everyone lived like this we would have a much more successful chruch and happier christians. While its true that you can tell a christian by there fruits when it comes to private matters you dont know what the circumstances are or what is going on and when you jump to conclusions you ruin relationships and while we are suppose to forgive you still create an element of distrust.

soul2008 said:

yes but who are we to judge who is a true follower of jesus and who is not?

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Huntingman,

You see those scriptures without understanding the context in which Jesus made them. I agree that divorce should not happen, but in a fallen world it can be the better choice for some. Jesus was addressing a specific issue related to the Pharisees. He was correcting some wrong views about easy divorce that some of them held to.

John
NZ

Thanks Johnnz, very rarely should divorce be the road taken for a Christian. Only under extreme circumstances...if at all. This is why finding the right person is so important.
The next step is keeping the relationship alive, no marriage is easy and without trial, but with the amount of help and education avaliable, our marriages should really be lasting longer, not shorter.

We have really diluted Gods wod to a point where we choose what verse to listen to and what verse not to, depending of our situation.

Humans...God is the only light, the only true path. Why is it so hard for us to listen?

Johnnz said:

Huntingman,
You see those scriptures without understanding the context in which Jesus made them.

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Guy, I life my life in the study of the marriage covenant from scripture. I lost count at about 5000 hours invested in this one topic alone. Check out the MDR studies area of my website for evidence of that
I assure you that Ive been over the context about 1000 times now.

I agree that divorce should not happen, but in a fallen world it can be the better choice for some. Jesus was addressing a specific issue related to the Pharisees. He was correcting some wrong views about easy divorce that some of them held to.

John
NZ

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You seem to have misunderstood something because I am the one saying that divorce is often the only choice we have

needingchange said:

Humans...God is the only light, the only true path. Why is it so hard for us to listen?

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I think the reason is that in many cases only ONE spouse is actually trying to listen or even making any attempt to do the right thing.
And the problem is that while it takes two to dance, it only takes one person to ruin that dance.
So while a dear young woman is doing just as Gods word instructs her to in her marriage, her husband is cheating, beating, raping and just being a overall creep. Even if she behaves herself there is no guarantee that tomorrow wont be the day that he kills her or brings HIV home to share with her.

Now if we could get both spouses to do the right thing, or even remotely try to be decent spouses, then we may have a fighting chance

soul2008 said:

yes but who are we to judge who is a true follower of jesus and who is not?

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then please explain why Jesus bothered to tell us that we know men by their fruits if not to give us some ability to discern the matter ?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(Mat 7:15-20 KJV)

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If we're not allowed to discern the matter then this warning seems a bit pointless.
If we arent allowed to do so then we are setting ourselves up to be misled.

And why does Matthew give a process for exposing those who are unlikely to be real believers when they sin against us ?

But if your brother shall trespass against you,
go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
But if he will not hear you, take one or two more with you, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church.
But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.
(Mat 18:15-17 MKJV)

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Is THAT not 'judgment' of the person over their behavior ?

And here Paul very plainly tells the church to judge this brother living in open sin and also at the end of the passage says very clearly that we ARE to judge those within the church.

On the whole it is reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even named among the nations, so as one to have his father's wife.
And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, so that he who has done this deed may be taken from your midst.

For as being absent in body but present in spirit, I indeed have judged already as though I were present concerning him who worked out this thing; in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my spirit; also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ; to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your boasting is not good.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast; not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in the letter not to associate intimately with fornicators; yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must go out of the world.

But now I have written to you not to associate intimately, if any man called a brotherand is either
a fornicator,
or covetous,
or an idolater,
or a reviler,
or a drunkard,
or an extortioner;
with such a one not to eat.
For what is it to me to also judge those who are outside?
Do you not judge those who are inside?
But God judges those who are outside.
Therefore put out from you the evil one.
(1Co 5:1-13 MKJV)

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We cannot judge a persons eternal state. We CAN judge/discern their behavior and act accordingly.
In fact we are INSTRUCTED to do so.