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What is it with divorce & old/new testament

soulbaby2008

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Im so confused. The old testament is fine with divorce but christ set out new rules, even if you divorce and remarry this is still a sin. But then "Gods word never changes" quoted from the bible

But i dont understand this. Consider my situation.

After i got married my husband was physically and verbally abusive. Eventually he stopped. But he still got angry- breaking things in the house, verbal abuse, etc.. We have been married for 6 years and i have seperated from him two weeks ago.

I dont love him and i could never love this man. He wants me back but i dont trust him, hes manipulative. He is on the phone to me for ages, writing me long emails, he is so obsessive and theres much more to all this.

Any way I want to do the right thing by God which doesnt this mean i cannot remarry.? I dont want to live alone by myself all my life. This would would just eat away at my soul.
God saw adam was lonely so that is why he made eve. (except adam was of course single) So God does not like to us lonely!

What are your thoughts on divorce and marrage? Im so confused and upset. If marriage can turn out this bad, why cant the bible offer an open door (divorce!)
 

iambren

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I'm tempted to just lay out my own opinion which is if he makes it impossiple to maintain a marriage through his abuse he has effectively left the relationship and if he is an unbeliever I Corinth 7:15 applies, you're no longer under any bondage.

"But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace."



BUT, a good study of divorce ethics is:

Marriage,Divorce,Remarriage by Jay Adams. Paperback 3$ Amazon


Good luck,sister. There's no way in my mind that God would expect someone to remain in a home where they are being mistreated. We serve a reasonable God and He is reasonable about marriage,loves you, and is aware of your plight.
 
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spencerian

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In the Old Testament we were under law.
The New Testament we are under grace.

In the Old Testament adulterers were stoned!

God has the power to change your heart. He can soften it so you can find the love you once had with this man. God can change him so he can adore and cherish you in such a way that you have never known.

I would suggest a Christian marriage counselor. There will be no "quick fix". There is no bit of wisdom I can give other than to quote scripture.

Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

You both have obstacles to overcome. You have to overcome your doubt that he has changed. He has to overcome his anger and meanness.
I think a third party may be a good choice to seek mediation for your conflicts.
Answer this: If he were a changed man, no more violence, could you see the goodness of his heart?

Now my personal notes on divorce:
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Deu 23:21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
Deu 23:22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.

Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.



Reasons to NOT divorce:

  • God hates Divorce …Mal. 2:16
  • Divorce is treacherous on children.
  • Divorce breaks a vow. It breaks your word to God.
  • God’s name is at stake
  • Divorce multiplies sin
 
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JSGuitarist

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A governor was once asked after a long public speech, "Did you give the people the best laws possible?" He replied, "I gave them the best they were able to hear."

I have never been married so I do not feel I should even try and offer advice in this situation, but perhaps I could help a bit with your first question. If any mods feel I should therefore not be posting here, I'm fine with having my writing deleted.

You'll notice that throughout the Old Testament, a lot of things happened with family that weren't outright condemned, but not endorsed either. Cain married his sister (by implication.. had no choice really), Abraham his half-sister (it was a marriage blessed by God), Noah's grandchildren really had no choice either, and Jacob and David were polygamists. Then of course we find passages such as "Don't lie with your father's daughter" or "the elders should be the husband of one wife." Then there's the case you mentioned above.

What I've found is that God allows people to sometimes get away with things He otherwise would say no to because of the conditions of their heart. Jesus stated in Matthew 19:8 - "Moses permitted divorce because your hearts were hard, but it was not this way from the beginning." God understood Israel could not bear the full weight of God's original plan because spiritually they were still babies (or should I say rebellious?), and people like Cain and the children of Shem, Ham and Japheth had no choice but to marry within the family, so God has decided in these cases that it was best to let them go forth with what they did and accept their faith as a credit of righteousness. This was definitely the case with Abraham, and this is what He does even today. You'll notice that as you go from start to beginning in the Bible, the bar seems to raise a little bit, even in the New Testament.

What Jesus is saying though is that this is not the way that God ever wanted it to be. In Matthew 19:6 he says, "What God has joined together, let no man separate." It breaks God's hearts when divorce occurs. At the same time though, the statute given in the Old Testament, and Christ's words in v11 "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given," and Paul's lecture on celibacy are all an admittance of one thing: Marriage is by nature very difficult, and the gravity of the relationship is hard to accept, which is why Jesus (to a small extent) praised singleness in Matthew 19:12, as well as Paul. He made an exception for Israel because of this, which was probably the wise thing to do because of their ridiculous stubborness, though this is by no means what He ever wanted, and in His mind, divorce and remarriage is as good as adultery (with the exception of an unfaithful spouse, or the nonbeliever choosing to leave the marriage).

As for your situation, I'm sorry you're going through all of this I pray that God will grant you strength, wisdom and clarity.
 
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soulbaby2008

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All things are possible with God. But divorce is not? I should never have married anyone in the first place if it means living in hell. This is a curse not a blessing. God has put me together with a man for what reason? To be confused, bitter. Perhaps time will tell. God has a reason for everything. But im 27 and and i have never been happy, my years are wasted and empty. My youth is flying by.
Sorry im venting here
 
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ShainaBrina

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Hi Soulbaby,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. First thing... just because he's stopped hitting you doesn't mean his heart has changed... it could simply mean that he no longer HAS to hit you as you are already conditioned to fear him. I'm glad to hear you are now in a safe place. It will take time for you to recover from the abuse and regain your balance and sense of self.

Divorce is possible with God, as is remarriage. The reason most people say that divorce is a sin is because they are viewing it through Mal 2:16 - saying God hates divorce. However - this is a mistranslation. The KJV has it properly translated as God hates "putting away". Putting away and divorce are NOT interchangeable terms. What the men in Malichi's time were doing were "putting way"/ sending their wives away without a certificate of divorce. Which meant the now separated wives had no means of support and could not remarry because they were still technically married to their former husbands. This was an abusive practice and still sometimes happens in the Jewish Community today as only the man can write the certificate of divorce. This is the practice that God hated... The bible makes it clear that God is against violence and abuse.

In Exodus 21 we see that a man is obligated to provide 3 things for his wife; food, clothing and marital rights. (Marital rights are said to include affection and friendship as well as 'relations') If the husband fails to provide these 3 things - the wife has the right to ask for a divorce. Refusing to give her the certificate of divorce (Gett) was considered a crime worthy of corporal punishment, meaning he was beaten until he complied.

Deuteronomy gives the regulations about when a man may or may not divorce, showing that divorce was a part of life in the OT. When the Pharisees approached Jesus testing him on the subject of divorce, the question was not if a man could divorce but under which circumstances. The reasons for divorce was a big controversy in NT times, the schools of Shammai and Hillel made lists of what could constitute the basis for divorce, with the school of Shammai being more restrictive than that of Hillel. They were testing Jesus to see which School He would side with.

Many folks say that Jesus changed the rules when it came to divorce. But that can not be, for it would have been a sin for him to change any of the scripture and Jesus was without sin. The confusion is again because of mistranslation and thinking that putting away and divorce are interchangeable words. KJV has Jesus saying: 11. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery The word used here in Greek is Apoluo which translates to put away. If Jesus had wanted to say that divorce and remarriage equaled adultery, He would have used the word Apostasion meaning divorce or writing of divorcement. Instead He reaffirmed what God had said in Malichi 2.

Blessings
Shaina :o)
 
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overit

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God hates Divorce …Mal. 2:16
  • Divorce is treacherous on children.
  • Divorce breaks a vow. It breaks your word to God.
  • God’s name is at stake
  • Divorce multiplies sin

I can also say
God hates abuse (it's actually in that same verse-except most people conveniently don't quote it)
Abuse is treacherous on the wife and the children
Abuse breaks a vow-and his word before God to cherish honor and love you
Abuse multiplies sin-I have yet to see a home where abuse is prevalent be close to God-eventually your relationship with Christ is affected
Eventually remaining w/an abusive man (he is still abusive from what you say) will just perpetuate the cycle of abuse with your children.

Don't worry about being alone, remarriage, or anything else right now-stay away, stay no contact and get help from a domestic violence counselor immediately. And I don't believe remarriage is a sin-but you WILL need to spend some time alone healing from this relationship in order to be healthy in a new one and not repeate the pattern.

Scripture has been twisted for centuries to keep people in bondage and in abusive relationships. It doenst have to be that way.

By the way-I lived that way and have been divorced now 5 yrs-and have no desire still for remarriage...if I did I would not feel condemned.
 
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HuntingMan

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Im so confused. The old testament is fine with divorce but christ set out new rules, even if you divorce and remarry this is still a sin. But then "Gods word never changes" quoted from the bible
Actually this isnt the case. Nothing really changed....Jesus simply told the Jews that what they had been doing all along since the time of Moses WAS committing adultery and IS committing adultery.

For instance, in Matthew 5 Jesus tells them that if they lust after a woman then they commit adultery with her in their hearts.
Surely God didnt change His mind and go from being 'ok' with lust to not being ok with it....so we conclude that what Jesus did was to let them know that the WHOLE time they had lusted after women and believed themselves innocent that they WERE actually sinning.

Same thing with the frivolous divorce they were committing to remarry someone else. Jesus didnt mean that they were 'ok' in doing so before He came but instead was exposing the sin they were and had been committing the whole time. He defined sin that Moses for whatever reason had not defined in the Law.

Jesus didnt really 'change' things as far making things sinful that werent before as much as exposing existing sin to the Jews who believed themselves innocent because Moses hadnt put it in clear words that they were committing treachery against their wives in casting them out without cause.

To confirm this sort of thought passages such as in Malachi where God says that He hates putting away show us that God WASNT 'ok' with divorce like the Jews had been partaking of.

SEE->Click->>> A little background on divorce




Divorce is divorce is divorce....it ends the marriage covenant...even if sinfully carried out as proven by scriptures such as 1 Cor 7:10-11 where this woman is deemed as UNmarried after leaving her husband.

The question is whether we sin when we divorce or not. I personallly believe that abuse warrants divorce and so remarriage isnt an issue at all.

 
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HuntingMan

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He stills believes in God and is going to church, so i guess im still under bondage. He says he is doing the right thing now, but i just cant trust him or love him. And he is being over the top! Very obsessive and weird.
Jesus says we know men by their fruits....oranges dont come from apple trees and TRUE followers dont abuse their wives.
Remember that Paul spoke about 'false brethren' in the church and also remember that Jesus spoke about sheeps and goats and also the parable of the 10 virgins who may have appeared to be right but in the end werent.
Also there are those whom He will say He never knew that also APPEARED to be followers of Him but in the end really werent.
So that your husband plays the part does not mean that he IS actually a follower of Jesus Christ.
 
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HuntingMan

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Now my personal notes on divorce:
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

Context....the men were ditching their innocent wives for wives they were not lawfully allowed to have.


Let not does not mean CANNOT, Im afraid. Paul shows that man can put asunder in even instructs it to be so in one case...
READERS SEE->Click->>> "Let not man Put Asunder" vs "let the unbeliever depart"

Also the article presented earlier shows that there CAN be cause for the believer to leave the marriage.

Additonally 'one flesh' isnt an unbreakable bond...its consummation of the marriage...ie sex....

READERS SEE->Click->>> What is ''one flesh'' and what is it that God joins together

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
not relevant unless we are talking about a woman who has let a man come into her marriage...

you conveniently omitted the REST of Numbers 30 there, friend, that shows that there ARE cases where God releases someone from their vow...

Reasons to NOT divorce:

  • God hates Divorce …Mal. 2:16
  • Divorce is treacherous on children.
  • Divorce breaks a vow. It breaks your word to God.
  • God’s name is at stake
  • Divorce multiplies sin
Fallacy entirely. Gods marriage covenant has RULES. When those rules are broken to some great extent there is NO sin in divorcing as proven both by Christ in His exception and Paul in 1 cor 7.
And as I said, there ARE cases as proven by Numbers 30 whereby God WILL release the vow maker from fulfilling that vow.
You need to understand ALL of Gods word in the matter of vows, oaths and the marriage covenant, friend.
 
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soulbaby2008

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Thanks Shainabrina for all that information.

Translation is so important. Its scary that the the KJV bible was translated by a man who hated woman and i think abused his wife? Anyway i know he was crazy and an evil man. Theres information on the net somewhere. I never knew this until my sister showed me.

I will take your words into consideration and write them all down!
Thank you so much

"LOVE IS THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT"
 
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spencerian

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Hey those were my PERSONAL notes on divorce.
I even posted that in my message.
Those were the notes I made regarding my own personal divorce I am experiencing.
I believe her original post said he claims to have changed. I don't ever believe God would have you stay in a relationship that is abusive, or causes more sin.

I dont love him and i could never love this man

Sounds to me like she has hardened her heart. That is not always a bad thing.
 
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ShainaBrina

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So true!
 
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HisdaughterJen

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So, if a man (who claims to be a Christian) abuses his wife (physically or emotionally), or engages in pornography, or has inappropriate relationships with other women and refuses to stop, is he then considered an "unbeliever" who has left or abandoned his marriage even if he hasn't actually left?

I consider "interacting" with pornography to be adultery in a marriage.
I consider "friendships" with other women where gifts are exchanged and daily lunches are involved to be an inappropriate relationship for a married man, especially when he refuses to stop.
I consider any abuse (physical or emotional) to be the actions of an unbeliever.
If a man engages in these behaviors and refuses to stop or even apologize, he is an unbeliever who has "left" the marriage even if he hasn't physically left.

You see, I too, am struggling with BIBLICAL GROUNDS to leave my husband who is engaging in these behaviors. I've even been told that the only grounds for divorce is only if the wife commits adultery as if a woman is a sub-species. I've been told you've got to stay together because divorce is damaging to the kids....and what is watching a father behave in such a way?

If Huntingman's posts are correct, then God does not expect us to live in torturous chaos and drama in our marriages.
If my husband was physically abusing me as Soulbaby2008 is dealing with, there is no reason to stay. What are you waiting for...him to freak out one day and actually kill you? It's like saying, "I'm living with a snake that keeps biting me, is it ok if I leave?"
You bet its ok!

Furthermore, if he claims to be a Christian and doesn't produce the fruits of being a Christian, then he is NOT a Christian. In fact, if he goes to church on Sunday and then comes home and abuses his wife or enjoys porn or calls up his girlfriends, is that the behavior of a Christian? Just because someone goes to church doesn't make them a Christian.
 
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soulbaby2008

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MY husband is trying to do all the right things now. But I have lost my love for him. People in my church are saying that i should go back to him, but i dont love him at all- after everything that has happened.
Im so stressed! He is being overly nice.
He said that the church would disfellowship me if i stayed away from him too long.
Should of read the fine print on the marriage certificate.!
 
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HisdaughterJen

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You don't have to subject yourself to physical abuse of any kind. IF the church threatens to disfellowship you, then tell 'em you don't want to go back to your husband because he's prone to violence against you. If they want to disfellowship you because you won't go back to your husband because you don't want to be in a situation where you are hurt, then find a new church...they aren't God's people.
 
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ShainaBrina

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How are things going with you Soulbaby?

Before anyone should even consider going back to an abuser - there should be evidence of true repentance and change of character. That can only be established over a long time of observance - and trust takes a long time to rebuild... if it is possible at all.

Anyone who would pressure you, clearly has no understanding of the situation. It's easy to play the good guy. Let's see the fruit over the long haul!
 
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jdizon

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God has the power to change your heart. He can soften it so you can find the love you once had with this man. God can change him so he can adore and cherish you in such a way that you have never known.

I would suggest a Christian marriage counselor. There will be no "quick fix". There is no bit of wisdom I can give other than to quote scripture.

tampabaylawyers . com
 
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