What is God's Purpose?

[seafury15]

Hi Folks,
I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, it's always bugged me. I'm sure these have been asked before but browsing I didn't see anything in the forums:

1. God created the universe, the earth and mankind. We all have a choice to choose to walk with Him or without Him. Jesus is coming back, and all humans will be judged, some go to heaven and some go to hell. Why would god go through all that trouble and, looking back, what was the point?

2. What did God do before He created the universe?

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

I just joined and have a lot of questions but will start with the basics . Thanks!

Kurt

 

[Calminian]

Hi Folks,
I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, it's always bugged me. I'm sure these have been asked before but browsing I didn't see anything in the forums:

1. God created the universe, the earth and mankind. We all have a choice to choose to walk with Him or without Him. Jesus is coming back, and all humans will be judged, some go to heaven and some go to hell. Why would god go through all that trouble and, looking back, what was the point?

2. What did God do before He created the universe?

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

I just joined and have a lot of questions but will start with the basics . Thanks!

Kurt

Hi Kurt. It's a little complex as most theologians consider God to be atemporal. His is logically prior to the universe, but not necessarily temporally prior. IOW, He created time, just as He create matter and space. He can interact in time and space, but transcends them as well. Just as God is in no particular place, He is in no particular time. So the whole idea of what God did first and then second in a temporal sense, just doesn't apply. There was never a time when He did not know who we are and what was to take place in the universe, in what order, etc.

When Christ returns, a new heavens and earth will be created. We don't know much about it, but it will be much like the original creation was supposed to be before sin entered into it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Adstar]

Hi Folks,
I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, it's always bugged me. I'm sure these have been asked before but browsing I didn't see anything in the forums:

1. God created the universe, the earth and mankind. We all have a choice to choose to walk with Him or without Him. Jesus is coming back, and all humans will be judged, some go to heaven and some go to hell. Why would god go through all that trouble and, looking back, what was the point?


2. What did God do before He created the universe?

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

I just joined and have a lot of questions but will start with the basics . Thanks!

Kurt

Welcome aboard Kurt.

First thing your questions are not basic at all but are deep questions indeed.

All the answers you seek are not contained in the scriptures. There are some things we will not know until we are with God in eternity. All the answers you might receive as to the reason God created the universe or what God was doing before He created the universe will be only speculation. It is true that all humans will be judged and we know that some will spend eternity with God. As for where we will spend eternity with God, that is up to God. Scripture states that the old world and heavens will be replaced by a new earth and heavens so after the return of the Messiah Jesus earth will still exist and we shall dwell here.

I am looking forward to seeing more of your questions Kurt. Hope you find out all you need to know.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[prophecystudent]

Hi Folks,
I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, it's always bugged me. I'm sure these have been asked before but browsing I didn't see anything in the forums:

1. God created the universe, the earth and mankind. We all have a choice to choose to walk with Him or without Him. Jesus is coming back, and all humans will be judged, some go to heaven and some go to hell. Why would god go through all that trouble and, looking back, what was the point?

Why did God go to all that trouble? When God created man He knew that man would fail and so He provided a way for man to be reconciled to Him. God created us for His good pleasure and He loves us and wants to spend eternity with us. Being a just God, He has to be righteous in all things and that includes dealing with sin. He provided the solution to sin so those of us who choose to accept His free gift of salvation can spend eternity with Him. That is why He "went to all that trouble."


2. What did God do before He created the universe?

I don't know, but maybe He was planning on how to do it all.

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

As i understand it, all things will be made new. I assume that means the whole universe. If not, at least the earth will be completely renovated and returned to its pre-sin condition of perfection.

I just joined and have a lot of questions but will start with the basics . Thanks!

Kurt

Fred

 

[seafury15]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will surely be posting lots of questions here.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us. Is there a balance that any of you perhaps have and could share?

Kurt

 

[Calminian]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will surely be posting lots of questions here.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us. Is there a balance that any of you perhaps have and could share?

Kurt

Science was actually born out of a christian world view. God created an ordered world with consistent processes that are repeatable and testable. The only times science wouldn't apply is in those particular events where God acts directly and miraculously such as the Resurrection of Christ. But this miracle in no wise discredits modern understandings in medical science. Natural processes are vastly normative, but you would be required to believe in miracles as the Christian faith rests on the greatest miracle of all.

 

[Calminian]

Are you considering converting?

 

[seafury15]

Right now i'm in research mode really. My girlfriend is a Christian and the fact that I haven't quickly accepted God has frusterated her. We've attended church together on and off over our 3 year relationship (my job keeps me out of town many sundays). I'm not one to blindly follow (even when someone I really trust believes). If I'm going to accept Christianity I want to really believe, and be able to substantiate my position to anyone.

Obviously as our relationship progresses my believing becomes more 'time critical" to her. For some reason I don't feel comfortable just walking into a bible study or something.

That's why I'm here!

Kurt

 

[Dasdream]

Hi Folks,




2. What did God do before He created the universe?'

Nothing, there was nothing to do, absolutly nothing justa big black space. That's why he created everything, that is how it all started

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

We will be going into heaven for about 1,00 very fast years, and the earth will be new, not sure about the entire solar system, but I see no reason to change the universe when planet earth is the only one deseased.

Now Kurt, how about going to church on Saturdays? there are also Church services on Wed. and Friday nights. Wll depending which church you go to.

 

[rocklife]

the bible does not tell us everything God has done, all specifics. But it gives us the most important we need. The bible says we will know all things, when we are seeing Him face to face in heaven times, after death.

And educating yourself is not a bad thing, you can be a christian and still seek to learn about science and etc. Just seek for Truth in all things, and be prayerful for God's wisdom.

I do suggest your own personal bible reading, bible study. You can get a parallel bible, that is like 4 bibles in one. that helps me in study. Also an niv study bible, it has lots of footnotes and references. And even bible on tapes. Personal bible study benefits me a lot.

Glad to have you here, keep seeking

 

[Rafael]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will surely be posting lots of questions here.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us. Is there a balance that any of you perhaps have and could share?

Kurt

Welcome Kurt.
Having an open mind is great, and it keeps us from being narrow visioned towards what God can do. So often, I see people, including myself, at times, putting God in a box or imagining that He would be limited in His will beyond His just nature and love. God will always be Holy and never evil.
You may find that the more we understand and do not narrow ourselves in vision or in science, the more we find God in all things. Science and God are not opposed as some would have you believe. We just do not know how most elemental things of our universe and existence work even though we like to think so, as man. No matter how much we argue or say we think this way or that about creation of our universe or evolution of life, we still do not have power over even the most basic elements that science shows us. Gravitiy, time, mass, life; all these thing are related to our reality, yet we cannot, with our knowledge reverse engineer life or control gravity and time. If we truly understood such knowledge, we could do more than post theory and argument. We would make a tree or maybe even a so-called simple single cell of life live. Even a simple living cell of life has mechanisms of such complexity that they boggle the mind.
The mathematics of science is often the first discovery of new areas of knowledge, and theory on how many dimensions our universe and reality are composed of has come into the forefront of science. A unifying theory for mathematically explaining our existence that seems to work best requires 9 or 10 dimensions, yet we have no way at this time of seeing or measuring these unknowns at this time. What possibilities or things will we limit God to next when we see that the unknown dimensions outnumber the ones we see? How can we proudly limit God and HIs power with science. No, pure science reveals the unbiased truth without prejudice. Only when one goes and finds what they want to find doe the truth get bent..
The Bible told us long before the microscope or the telescope that all things are made of the unseen. So why is the unseen so difficult to believe in? Life tells us a story about a Creator of awesome intelligence, beauty, design, and about then rebellion and sin of man that leads to the horrors of death.
There are several books by the author Lee Strobel that may be helpful in reading along with the Bible. "A Case For A Creator" and "A Case For Faith" are both very good and the first is very informative about what scientists say if you are impressed by doctorates and PHDs.
I hope you have a great journey...

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.

 

[heron]

2. What did God do before He created the universe?

Let me check my journal. Yes, here it is... I know what He was doing.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us.

Of course! I find occasional times where there appears to be conflict, but the more I know about our world, the more I appreciate and understand God.

His universe story is not limited to a couple chapters.

Obviously as our relationship progresses my believing becomes more 'time critical" to her. For some reason I don't feel comfortable just walking into a bible study or something.

That's understandable. You are already under a pressure that someone wants you to change, and you could be put into a position where a circle of strangers would want to influence your way of thinking.

Even though I'm a Christian who believes that home Bible studies are wonderful for people who want them, I also feel it can be a confrontational and invasive atmosphere... people wanting to know more about you than you have offered to give. It really has to be the right group of people, and you don't know that until you've visited a couple times.

Small groups also tend to fine-tune their agreed theologies. I have entered new groups and found it very difficult to communicate my entire point, because people jump in (usually they've just heard the same sermon that leans a certain way).

Writing online is so much easier to be clear and effective! People still jump in and misunderstand points, but at least you have your words documented.

I really enjoy listening to a broad (I repeat, broad) range of media sermons, weighing the statements of each one without leaning too heavily on one person's teaching. I gain a lot from listening and sorting, without having to respond to someone saying "did you like it?"

There's a show on cable once a week that you might enjoy -- they bring on scientists, not always Christian. There's a strong Christian bias, but you wouldn't find people defending their faith with blind statements.

Thu 11/30
2:30 AM - 3:00 AM Pacific Time.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/multimedia/rtbradio/index.shtml
http://www.reasons.org/events/index.shtml

It's important to respect your girlfriend's faith, and participate in some things that bring her joy. But don't change your allegiances just to keep her happy. This is between you and God.

She is coming from a standpoint that her parents and church are probably telling her that an unbeliever will not support her in the way she hopes to live. It's a valid concern -- lots of people jump into commitments and later find they can't be themselves or follow their dreams.

But it sounds as though you two understand each other enough that you are not dragging her down... actually, you're probably increasing her faith with these discussions. She ideally wants someone who will pray with her and talk about spiritual issues freely... boost her faith when hers is low. (I shouldn't speak for her... only guessing.)

With this in mind, I think there are things you can do to encourage her in her own faith walk, without the focus always being on yours. Just walk her through things -- you probably already do. Listen to her gripes, encourage her to try new things, allow her time she needs to pursue what's important to her, and respect what she says (without needing to agree or disagree).

​

 

[Philothei]

Hello!

Since I do not know what denomination your girlfriend belongs to, I cannot say for sure what specific beliefs they have. On creation and the idea of "why" God created and sustained the world, as an Orthodox Christian, I can tell you that God out of love created the world. He created the universe, the stars the moon etc. He created the cosmos so that he is not alone. He also created us humans in his "image and likeness" that is he gave us certain "qualities" that he did not give the rest of the creation. The intellect for an example, and the free will. The fall story in the bible is like a turning point for man turning against God. He rebelled against God by listening to Satan, the father of lies. Man denied his "likeness" at that point and he "fell" into a state of sin since then. But the salvific plan of God continued with Christ, the Son of God. God send his "pre-existed" Son to be incarnated (take up flesh) and come to earth to save mankind. Again God out of love sends his Son to save mankind. The salvific plan of God does not end here it will be manifested in completion in the "Eschaton" the end of the days when Christ will come again in His Glory for judgment. The whole creation then will "unify" and "unite" with God the Father as it was intented since the beginning of times. Some of us will enter Paradise and some will not. Hell is considered a place of "non-existance" for some and for some a place of torture, either way it is supposed to be a place of utter isolation or discomfort. This is "shortly put" the cosmology/end of times theory for us Orthodox Christians . In my opinion, I think it is the same across the board, with some variations, in most denominations.

You can read more in the Christian Wikis in this forum. They got adequate information about all major ones!

I hope I was helpful. Good bless

I wish you and your girlfriend will grow in your knowledge of God not only intelectualy but also spiritualy and that He will come in to your lives and direct your paths in His Truth.

Philothei

 

[ebia]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will surely be posting lots of questions here.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us. Is there a balance that any of you perhaps have and could share?

Kurt

The mainstream churches do not require you to check-in your brain at the front door; stick clear of any that do.

Nothing in science or cosmology is incompatible with the Christian faith as understood by Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Orthodox, etc.

 

[wiggsfly]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will surely be posting lots of questions here.

Is it possible for me to become a Christian without abandoning my passion for cosmology and sciences in general? I never want to close my mind and shut out what current research is telling us. Is there a balance that any of you perhaps have and could share?

Kurt

Hello Kurt! As a Christian who is considering pursuing a PhD in Archeology I can tell you without a doubt that you will not have to abandon your passion.

From my own experiences the best way I can explain this is that science is man's attempt to explain God's methods. None of us expecct a giant hand to come out off the sky to build mountains, etc. Instead he created the rules by which this universie operates and our study of science is a study of those rules.

The argument often becomes that by studying science we will prove God doesn't exist. I was just reading in one form how science has "proven" all sorts of beliefs about God are wrong. The truth is this doesn't prove anything of the sort. God is nearly the engineer of this universe and science isi our attempt to figure out that engineering. Think of the NASA engineers who build the spacce shuttle. Today there are shows on TV about how they built it and many of their ideas are easily identifiable simply with a little research. Just because we know there ideas however doesn't make them any less important or even revolutionary. The same is true with God. Just because we've learned a few of his many methods doesn't mean they are any less miraculous.

Hope this helps a little....

 

[heron]

As a Christian who is considering pursuing a PhD in Archeology I can tell you without a doubt that you will not have to abandon your passion.

Thank you for revealing a little identity, wiggsfly. These CF characters give the forum a look that PhD students couldn't possibly be hiding behind them. I didn't use a character for a year because I didn't think anyone would take me seriously... but it doesn't seem to matter.

The mainstream churches do not require you to check-in your brain at the front door; stick clear of any that do.

I've belonged to some independent churches, and they're also filled with doctors and lawyers and administrators and programmers and scientists.

But yes, some churches have mindsets about spirituality always being higher than human or rational issues, and that leads them into some dangerous territories pertaining to ethics, character, sensitivity, and truths.

I think it's the individual congregation that will espouse an unquestioning mindset, with stances opening the door for tendencies to oppose the scientific community.

Anyway, yes, there are churches that will help you make sense of it and churches that won't consider it important. And individuals who will say strange things.

3. What happens to the universe after the return of Christ?

The apostle John had an intense experience, where an angel led him through seeing a series of events that would come. Christians base much of their opinion of the universe's future on this visionary experience, as well as some OT ones.

Revelations 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. The word used for heaven can also mean sky, universe, stratosphere (and/or other layers)... a number of things.

Matthew 5:18
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Mt 24:35, Mr 13:31, Lu 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Okay... that one's not good. Asteroid collision scenario. Volcanic heyday. Global warming!!

Why would god go through all that trouble and, looking back, what was the point?

Do you ever build birdhouses, or restore old cars, or paint-- just because you enjoy the creative process? Lead boy scouts or start a golfing league or organize a ski group, just because you think it would benefit everyone and be fun?

I'm not sure there has to be a conclusive answer.​

 

[seafury15]

Thank you for all the replies, I've found them all very encouraging. This is actually a very effective medium to ask questions, and feel comfortable doing so.

Thanks again

Kurt

 

[seafury15]

Wiggsfly,
BTW - I fly too That's why I'm always gone

What're you flying now?

Kurt

 

[calidog]

Only God can answer the first two questions, or explain to us why we can't understand His answers. Perhaps He will tell us when we see Him.
The answer to the third question is in the bible, He will destroy this universe and make a new one.

 

[luvhim]

Hi seafury

I'm glad to see you asking questions.

I will keep you and your girlfriend in all our prayers.