What is God's judgment...? Is it different for the believer and the non-believer...?

Hethatreadethit · Sep 10, 2017

hedrick said:
Yes. What you point out is one of the major uses of the term judgement in the OT. However it's not what the OP was asking about.

The question did not imply the judgment to what you say. But then again, I should expect it.

Winken · Sep 10, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is God's judgment...?

Is it different for the believer and the non-believer who has continued to and does reject Christ for no good reason...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Research The Judgment Seat of Christ for Christians, and the Great White Throne for all others.

Emmy · Sep 11, 2017

Dear Neogaia777. God is Love, and God has given us free will. We can Love and accept God, OR we cannot, the choice is ours. Jesus gave us good advice in Matthew 22; 35-40. The fist Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it; love thy neighbour as thyself." That is straightforward, we choose to follow Jesus back to God, or we go our own way. God wants loving sons and daughters, and we have to give up all our selfish wishes and wants.
The Bible tells us; give up Who is our neighbour?all selfish desires, and follow Jesus " The Way." Who is our neighbour? all we know and all we meet. Matthew 7:7-10; tells us: Ask and you shall receive, we ask God for Love and Compassion, then we thank God and share all love and compassion with our neighbour. Love is very catching, and before long we shall be the men and women which God wants us to be. I say this with love, Neogaia. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

toLiJC · Sep 11, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is God's judgment...?

Is it different for the believer and the non-believer who has continued to and does reject Christ for no good reason...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

in principle, the irreligious and non-occult people fundamentally don't reject the true Lord God - after all, a person can be a sinner not only because they are irreligious

Neogaia777 said:
We know that the law or OT law covenant is only the first part of God's judgement for the believer...

What is the rest of the judgment of God, for the believer and non-believer...?

God Bless!

it is the same for everyone in the longest term of eternity

Ecclesiastes 9:2 (NASB) "It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear."

according to the biblical doctrine of "eternal judgment" (Hebrews 6:2) every soul will be in the place/position of any other and will have the same identity/personality and fate as them during the course of the cycle of the eternity of eternities, therefore whatever happened/happens to any of the souls, the same will happen to any other of them, albeit at different times(in different eternities)

Psalm 45:6 (Aramaic) "Your throne, oh God, is to the eternity of eternities.",

Psalm 48:14 (Aramaic) "this is God, our God, for eternity, and to the eternity of eternities",

Psalm 104:5 (Aramaic) "He has prepared Earth upon its foundations that it will not move for an eternity of eternities(note: the meaning of this verse is the same as the meaning of Psalm 111:7 - the verse below).",

Psalm 111:7 (Aramaic) "The work of his hands is truth and judgment and they stand to the eternity of eternities.",

Revelation 1:18 (Aramaic) "I am he who lived and died, and behold, I am alive to the eternity of eternities, amen",

Revelation 22:13 (NASB) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.",

Revelation 21:6 (NASB) "He said to me, It is done(i.e. it turns out to be a real fact and true as well as one and the same, and not for the first time - i.e. everything that happened, happens again, and everything that happens, will happen again). I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end(i.e. the beginning and the end of the (single/little) eternity).",

Revelation 19:3 (Aramaic) "her smoke ascends to the eternity of eternities."

Blessings

Devin P · Sep 11, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is God's judgment...?

Is it different for the believer and the non-believer who has continued to and does reject Christ for no good reason...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Well, to know what will happen to both the believer and the non-believer, you have to think about what and who God is. God is perfect righteousness and perfect judgement.

God is so just, and so perfect, that anything short of that cannot stand in His presence, because He in nature, is judgement. All that is less than He, if He's unbridled, e.g. NOT speaking through an angel or prophet or Jesus, then anything less than perfect, will be consumed in fire. God Himself, says that His existence is proven and obvious all throughout creation, so that no man has any excuse for unbelief.

Sin, separates us, but God restores that separation. All we have to do, is trust in Him to do so. The only thing we have to do, is be obedient, in that, we don't sin, because as it's written, whoever is born of Him cannot sin. Which means that we have to look at what is defined as sin, and what can show us our sin.

The bible only describes sin, as one of two things. Disobeying a word that comes from the mouth of God as He's literally telling a person to do something, or, the transgression of the law of God. The way we are to know we're saved, is if we're led by His spirit. So then, what will His spirit leading us look like?

Ezekiel 36:26-27 -
26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Isaiah 55:9 -
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

1 Kings 8:58 -
that He may incline our hearts to Himself, to walk in all His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His ordinances, which He commanded our fathers.

Psalm 5:3 - 3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O Lord; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

God's ways - His Torah, is righteousness. It's perfection, and without His spirit, it's impossible for us to obey it, but since Jesus has come, the impossibilities associated with it are gone. He pointed us to the fact that, while we should obey the Torah, the only one that can forgive us out sins, isn't the blood of animals, but the Father.

If a man be in unbelief, he will not be accepted. Faith is how we are justified, but this faith will work in us obedience to the law of God. So, since unbelievers don't believe in God, let alone place any value in His laws, chances are, they will not be saved, because they have no faith. Faith is what saves us, not the law, BUT, that faith will produce in us an obedient heart that will make us desire the ways of our Father. Those ways, are His law, and His law, is love. There are laws that are only for love, and love alone can fulfill all of them. Keeping Sabbath for instance. We can keep sabbath on the day God commanded, the 7th day, or we can keep it on the day that the Romans forced the early church to observe it (by the threat of death), which is the 1st day (sunday). While I think it might be possible for one to enter into heaven if they were unknowingly breaking the sabbath, if someone knew, and chose to love the world and tradition over the word of our Father, I'm not so sure, but so long as they had the faith, they might be alright.

Jesus did say that whoever does away with the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, meaning that they can still get there, they'll just be least.

Blade · Sep 11, 2017

Well this "judgment" will differ from believer to believer". No..I am no expert here. I see these are not the days of old. Where no one had what we have now..the Sweet sweet Holy Spirit. So.. a woman.. caught in sin.. tossed at Jesus feet. Did she ask to be forgiven? She was a sinner. Other than believers.. WHO is tossing the lost the sinners of this world now at GOD feet?

God never once asked hinted at Abraham to stop at 10. Even then... there was just one righteous LOT.. that still God would do nothing as long as Lot was there. And we see now today.. believers and the wicked die together. To get around this.. I watched.. listen.. some say..GOD will warn them. OOPS they never left.. God judged ANYWAY? Did they not read what Abraham asked God? Other times.. God was going to judge.. looked for just ONE of them to stand in the gap so He would not have to.

For me.. what was..is not what is now. Jesus came.. not to Judge..now you can believe its been over two thousand years or just two days for Him. And what HE started..and did.. has not changed. For me.. no matter how many I toss at HIS feet.. He remind me.. this is why I died. Age of grace..not to freely sin. For the wages of sin is death. Is not that a judgment in its self?

See I never meet this GOD some talk about. Well I read this battle is not with man. And then.. to judge some sinner..that is judged already... that GOD FORBID...dies.. then waits for judgment day...to then get judged again.. to then be tossed away in some fire (FORGIVE my Father) that was never made for man.. to be away from the one that made them.. I dont know this God.

See we see DEATH in this world and then APPLY that to every lasting. Judgment came.. the price for this SIN from Adam to the last person. ALL that SIN has been JUDGED! No? WHY did Jesus die and for WHO? Just WHAT is GOD judging the SINNER on? What SIN? What sin did Jesus die for?

I am no expert here. Strange.. I dont even ask Him about it. I know we sinner of us..cant freely sin..it has a price.. yet.. not the way MAN says. Take storms.. that hit the cost..so far HUNDREDS of times. Then earthquakes.. raging seas. ALL of this is birth pains. Not judgment what so ever.

Right now.. is grace...right now ALL of man can freely choose JESUS.. or not.. and nothing from HIM will happen. YET there is coming a day...when they HAD the chance to choose and they did not. NOW this world will be judged. GOD made sure man had a VERY VERY VERY Long time to make the right choice..

Thats how I see it..

Neogaia777 · Sep 12, 2017

Hethatreadethit said:
More hogwash. You ever washed a pig before, well I grew up on the farm and pigs love slop, and love to wallure in the mud, they root with their snout and make holes so they can slop in the mud (kinda sounds like fun, don't it?) That is why farmers will put rings in their snouts.

Anyway, like the pig, natural man loves to slop in the mud, always returning to sin. Perhaps that is one reason why God commanded the Jews to not eat pork.

People sin, and need more than a fairy tale to turn from it. Christ did not die to substitute for your punishment for sin. He died to show you that sin killed him, and that you should turn from your sins.
If you believe that Christ died and was resurrected, and that He was offered BECAUSE of Your sins, then you may come to the true faith and understanding in Christ. How easy was it for satan to change the purpose of Christ to lead people to think that they can live in sin and please God, undoing everything that was purposed according to God's will. His death was then in vain.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And, I suppose your sinless then...?

And you seem to be against me cause the way I say to stop sinning is to walk with God...

You against that...?

Explaining that for the majority of people, (although their is a minority also), this does not happen "overnight"... But, with time walking with God... And growth and maturity... Which is a process...

God Bless!

Hethatreadethit · Sep 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
And, I suppose your sinless then...?

And you seem to be against me cause the way I say to stop sinning is to walk with God...

You against that...?

Explaining that for the majority of people, (although their is a minority also), this does not happen "overnight"... But, with time walking with God... And growth and maturity... Which is a process...

God Bless!

Nope, just knowledgeable of this world's idea of Christianity. If unbelievers do not come to this world's idea of Christianity, they are in better shape than most so called "believers of the faith". They will not be judged because they have nothing to be compared.

Neogaia777 · Sep 12, 2017

Hethatreadethit said:
Nope, just knowledgeable of this world's idea of Christianity. If unbelievers do not come to this world's idea of Christianity, they are in better shape than most so called "believers of the faith". They will not be judged because they have nothing to be compared.

What do you say is this world's idea of Christianity...? vs. True Christianity, i guess...?

Hethatreadethit · Sep 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What do you say is this world's idea of Christianity...? vs. True Christianity, i guess...?

Book of Daniel says:

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Why is it that the wicked shall never come to know or understand?

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why can they not progress, and they are in a position where they can not "lift up"?

Christ stands at the door and He knocks:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I don't believe He will just open the door for anyone. What are you bringing to the door? In the OT, when you killed an offering, you had to bring it to the door of the temple:

Lev 17:8 And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,
Lev 17:9 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.

Think of Christ as the offering and have you brought your sacrifice to the door? Did you come to the door with a contrite and willing heart to take your responsibility for the death and offering of Christ due to your sin? Or, did you come to the door to say, thanks God for killing your Son on my behalf? The common doctrine of the world's Christianity uses the later of the two. Its called the vicarious death of Christ. He died in your stead for your sins.

This is why Christ will not open the door for those who have this abomination in their heart. If you can fathom this, then God bless you to grow in grace. And there is more, but try to understand what I just said.

Neogaia777 · Sep 12, 2017

Hethatreadethit said:
Book of Daniel says:

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Why is it that the wicked shall never come to know or understand?

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why can they not progress, and they are in a position where they can not "lift up"?

Christ stands at the door and He knocks:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I don't believe He will just open the door for anyone. What are you bringing to the door? In the OT, when you killed an offering, you had to bring it to the door of the temple:

Lev 17:8 And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,
Lev 17:9 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.

Think of Christ as the offering and have you brought your sacrifice to the door? Did you come to the door with a contrite and willing heart to take your responsibility for the death and offering of Christ due to your sin? Or, did you come to the door to say, thanks God for killing your Son on my behalf? The common doctrine of the world's Christianity uses the later of the two. Its called the vicarious death of Christ. He died in your stead for your sins.

This is why Christ will not open the door for those who have this abomination in their heart. If you can fathom this, then God bless you to grow in grace. And there is more, but try to understand what I just said.

I was actually going to start a thread on "Christ is my sacrifice", how'd you know what I was thinking...?

I do understand, and understand that many do not understand, not some where they're currently at anyway, I pray for them...

God Bless!

Hethatreadethit · Sep 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I was actually going to start a thread on "Christ is my sacrifice", how'd you know what I was thinking...?

I do understand, and understand that many do not understand, not some where they're currently at anyway, I pray for them...

God Bless![/QUOTE}

One more important thing: The offering of Christ was not substitutional but rather an identity, that when He died, all mankind died.

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

If your life is hid with Christ, you died with him.

Hethatreadethit · Sep 12, 2017

One more important thing: The offering of Christ was not substitutional but rather an identity, that when He died, all mankind died.

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

If your life is hid with Christ, you died with him.

SBC · Sep 13, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Non-believers are judged not by their faith, but by how much they listen to God's Holy Spirit and treated others well.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

^ That is not about "unbelievers".
Unbelievers do not stand before the throne of God.
Unbelievers absolutely ARE Judged for their lack of faith.

God Bless,
SBC

Hethatreadethit · Sep 15, 2017

SBC said:
^ That is not about "unbelievers".
Unbelievers do not stand before the throne of God.
Unbelievers absolutely ARE Judged for their lack of faith.

God Bless,
SBC

Unbelievers is not the problem with the world, it's the DECEIVERS, they will be harshly judged for their lies!

SBC · Sep 15, 2017

Hethatreadethit said:
Unbelievers is not the problem with the world, it's the DECEIVERS, they will be harshly judged for their lies!

Well, without negating unbelievers - I can agree "deceivers" will have their rough day of Judgement.

And that brought to mind - all those people who lie to receive welfare handouts...unemployment checks when they really did not look for employment....pretend they were injured at work....etc....and all the other scams to deceive others to provide for them..

1 Tim 5

[8] But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

God Bless,
SBC

Neogaia777 · Sep 15, 2017

I wonder if we have to first know just how unworthy we really are, before we can appreciate how worthy we are according God...?

Based on and only able to fully know and appreciate how worthy God makes us, due to knowing how unworthy we are, knowing that is all God in us and none of us, and that it is not about us...

It's an irony, that, as unworthy as we really are, how God see's us despite that, that can be known by us knowing that (how truly unworthy we are), yet God gives us "Him" himself, the ultimate prize, the most valuable treasure...

To know, or in order to know that every breath we take, is a gift from God and (now this is important) by the "grace" of God, the Love of God, is fully known in knowing how unworthy you are...

God Bless!

SBC · Sep 15, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is God's judgment...?

Some Judgements:

Lucifer banished from Heaven.
Adam and Eve banished from the Garden.
Flood upon the world.
Tower of Babel.
Egypt's 10 plagues.
Jesus taking Sin upon His body.

Believers own self-judging examining their faith.
Judgement at the Tribulation. Wrath, 7 bowls pour out upon the earth.
Christ's Judgement seat of believers works.
..............unworthy works burned; worthy to the Lord works rewarded.
Judgement of Nations. Has to do with treatment of Nations toward Israel during the trib
Judgement of Angels. Fallen Angels judged by the faithful
Great White Throne Judgement - end of 1,000 reign for all unbelievers.
......dead unchanged bodies raise, living soul in hell imparted to their body. Body resumes living. All stand before Jesus, IN Hell. They See Jesus and Believe. Praise and bow in worship to Jesus.
Their name does not appear in the book of life. ie, no testimony of their soul being saved. Life of their soul is departed, returns to God, their lifeless body and lifeless soul is thrown in the lake of fire and they are remembered no more, forever being separated from God.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Sep 15, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I wonder if we have to first know just how unworthy we really are, before we can appreciate how worthy we are according God...?

Based on and only able to fully know and appreciate how worthy God makes us, due to knowing how unworthy we are, knowing that is all God in us and none of us, and that it is not about us...

It's an irony, that, as unworthy as we really are, how God see's us despite that, that can be known by us knowing that (how truly unworthy we are), yet God gives us "Him" himself, the ultimate prize, the most valuable treasure...

To know, or in order to know that every breath we take, is a gift from God and (now this is important) by the "grace" of God, the Love of God, is fully known in knowing how unworthy you are...

God Bless!

Or on the flip side, of precisely HOW WORTHY man is....and why.

Every man WHO has become saved and born again - gives to God, WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE. Strange eh? What could God possibly NOT have?
The answer is "His Inheritance"!
Every saved and born again man IS Gods Inheritance.

God Bless,
SBC

ViaCrucis · Sep 15, 2017

Traditional Christian thought usually posits that there is both a particular judgment and a general judgment; particular judgment occurs at our death, while general judgment happens at the conclusion of history, this is what's known as the Final or Last Judgment or Day of Judgment.

The doctrine of particular judgment comes from places such as, for example, what we read in the Parable of Dives and Lazarus that the rich man, Dives ends up in Gehenna while the poor man Lazarus ends up in Paradise--both awaiting the future Judgment and resurrection of the dead. That Dives is in Gehenna and Lazarus in Paradise indicates a particular, immediate judgment after death; yet this is before the future Judgment that is to come.

The Christian hopes both that, following the conclusion of this life, s/he will go into the presence of the Lord to rest in Him and wait for the future Judgment and resurrection of the dead.

The unrepentant wicked, we believe, will experience a foretaste of future Judgment in Gehenna until Judgment and resurrection, following which is what St. John the Divine figuratively describes as a lake of fire and brimstone and/or second death.

What is in common is that we must all, one day, stand before Christ, God our Judge, and give account of everything, every word, thought, and deed; and our hope exists solely in the grace and mercy of God in Jesus Christ who gave His life for us.

-CryptoLuthearn

What is God's judgment...? Is it different for the believer and the non-believer...?

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