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<blockquote data-quote="ViaCrucis" data-source="post: 76051520" data-attributes="member: 293637"><p>In the Lutheran tradition we sometimes speak of Deus Absconditus, "The Hidden God" and Deus Revelatus, "The Revealed God". So that "general" or "natural revelation" is aligned with God in His Hiddenness: God's "power and wisdom" that St. Paul describes as being displayed in the created order. Seeing the power and glory of God in the created order, however, is God hidden. If I look at the power of the sun on a hot day warming the earth (and there's a heat wave here on the west coast of the US, so that power of the sun is seeming pretty strong today) it cannot get me to a place where I can confess God as Father; I can at best confess "That Great Power" or "That Which I Know Not" but which nevertheless declares "I AM". It is only through the Revelation of God in Jesus Christ that we come to know God as God the Father, for Christ speaks of Him as His Father, and then invites us to join with Him in calling His Father our Father, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name".</p><p></p><p>In that sense "nature's God", or "the philosopher's God", can only ever get us, at best, to the Deus Absconditus. And thus paradoxically God in His nakedness (Deus Nudus) is hidden, God in the nudity of His glory is unknowable and unapproachable. This knowledge cannot lead us to the cross. Only God, unveiled in Jesus, clothed in humility and suffering, can show us God's face". Thus to know God, in the Christian sense, can only ever mean to know God in Jesus Christ. That is what Jesus means when He says, "No one can come to the Father but by Me". Jesus isn't talking about "going to heaven" here, but how to encounter God personally, the personal encounter with God happens in the Person of the Incarnate Son and Word. The Father makes Himself known in and through His Son, so that whoever knows the Son, knows the Father as well; whoever sees the Son, clothed as He is in human weakness, humility, and suffering, sees the Father. It is here, in Jesus, that God is Deus Revelatus.</p><p></p><p>Thus, Dr. Luther writes the following concerning false theology (theologia gloriae, "theologies of glory") and true theology (theologia crucis, "the theology of the cross")</p><p></p><p>"<em>That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the »invisible« things of God as though they were clearly »perceptible in those things which have actually happened« (Rom. 1:20; cf. 1 Cor 1:21-25). This is apparent in the example of those who were »theologians« and still were called »fools« by the Apostle in Rom. 1:22. Furthermore, the invisible things of God are virtue, godliness, wisdom, justice, goodness, and so forth. The recognition of all these things does not make one worthy or wise.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross. The manifest and visible things of God are placed in opposition to the invisible, namely, his human nature, weakness, foolishness. The Apostle in 1 Cor. 1:25 calls them the weakness and folly of God. Because men misused the knowledge of God through works, God wished again to be recognized in suffering, and to condemn »wisdom concerning invisible things« by means of »wisdom concerning visible things«, so that those who did not honor God as manifested in his works should honor him as he is hidden in his suffering (absconditum in passionibus). As the Apostle says in 1 Cor. 1:21, »For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.« Now it is not sufficient for anyone, and it does him no good to recognize God in his glory and majesty, unless he recognizes him in the humility and shame of the cross. Thus God destroys the wisdom of the wise, as Isa. 45:15 says, »Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself.« So, also, in John 14:8, where Philip spoke according to the theology of glory: »Show us the Father.« Christ forthwith set aside his flighty thought about seeing God elsewhere and led him to himself, saying, »Philip, he who has seen me has seen the Father« (John 14:9). For this reason true theology and recognition of God are in the crucified Christ, as it is also stated in John 10 (John 14:6) »No one comes to the Father, but by me.« »I am the door« (John 10:9), and so forth.</em>" - Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, Theses 19-20</p><p></p><p>That is, to confess "God is very powerful" is not true theology, that's not really saying anything specifically Christian about God. It is only when we meet God in Jesus, in Jesus' suffering, God clothed by the cross, that we actually meet God.</p><p></p><p>It's the difference between saying, "There once was a very great king who lived in a kingdom far away" and "I have met the king, and the king is very kind and humble".</p><p></p><p>-CryptoLutheran</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ViaCrucis, post: 76051520, member: 293637"] In the Lutheran tradition we sometimes speak of Deus Absconditus, "The Hidden God" and Deus Revelatus, "The Revealed God". So that "general" or "natural revelation" is aligned with God in His Hiddenness: God's "power and wisdom" that St. Paul describes as being displayed in the created order. Seeing the power and glory of God in the created order, however, is God hidden. If I look at the power of the sun on a hot day warming the earth (and there's a heat wave here on the west coast of the US, so that power of the sun is seeming pretty strong today) it cannot get me to a place where I can confess God as Father; I can at best confess "That Great Power" or "That Which I Know Not" but which nevertheless declares "I AM". It is only through the Revelation of God in Jesus Christ that we come to know God as God the Father, for Christ speaks of Him as His Father, and then invites us to join with Him in calling His Father our Father, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name". In that sense "nature's God", or "the philosopher's God", can only ever get us, at best, to the Deus Absconditus. And thus paradoxically God in His nakedness (Deus Nudus) is hidden, God in the nudity of His glory is unknowable and unapproachable. This knowledge cannot lead us to the cross. Only God, unveiled in Jesus, clothed in humility and suffering, can show us God's face". Thus to know God, in the Christian sense, can only ever mean to know God in Jesus Christ. That is what Jesus means when He says, "No one can come to the Father but by Me". Jesus isn't talking about "going to heaven" here, but how to encounter God personally, the personal encounter with God happens in the Person of the Incarnate Son and Word. The Father makes Himself known in and through His Son, so that whoever knows the Son, knows the Father as well; whoever sees the Son, clothed as He is in human weakness, humility, and suffering, sees the Father. It is here, in Jesus, that God is Deus Revelatus. Thus, Dr. Luther writes the following concerning false theology (theologia gloriae, "theologies of glory") and true theology (theologia crucis, "the theology of the cross") "[I]That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the »invisible« things of God as though they were clearly »perceptible in those things which have actually happened« (Rom. 1:20; cf. 1 Cor 1:21-25). This is apparent in the example of those who were »theologians« and still were called »fools« by the Apostle in Rom. 1:22. Furthermore, the invisible things of God are virtue, godliness, wisdom, justice, goodness, and so forth. The recognition of all these things does not make one worthy or wise. He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross. The manifest and visible things of God are placed in opposition to the invisible, namely, his human nature, weakness, foolishness. The Apostle in 1 Cor. 1:25 calls them the weakness and folly of God. Because men misused the knowledge of God through works, God wished again to be recognized in suffering, and to condemn »wisdom concerning invisible things« by means of »wisdom concerning visible things«, so that those who did not honor God as manifested in his works should honor him as he is hidden in his suffering (absconditum in passionibus). As the Apostle says in 1 Cor. 1:21, »For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.« Now it is not sufficient for anyone, and it does him no good to recognize God in his glory and majesty, unless he recognizes him in the humility and shame of the cross. Thus God destroys the wisdom of the wise, as Isa. 45:15 says, »Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself.« So, also, in John 14:8, where Philip spoke according to the theology of glory: »Show us the Father.« Christ forthwith set aside his flighty thought about seeing God elsewhere and led him to himself, saying, »Philip, he who has seen me has seen the Father« (John 14:9). For this reason true theology and recognition of God are in the crucified Christ, as it is also stated in John 10 (John 14:6) »No one comes to the Father, but by me.« »I am the door« (John 10:9), and so forth.[/I]" - Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, Theses 19-20 That is, to confess "God is very powerful" is not true theology, that's not really saying anything specifically Christian about God. It is only when we meet God in Jesus, in Jesus' suffering, God clothed by the cross, that we actually meet God. It's the difference between saying, "There once was a very great king who lived in a kingdom far away" and "I have met the king, and the king is very kind and humble". -CryptoLutheran [/QUOTE]
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