muichimotsu
I Spit On Perfection
- May 16, 2006
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Honestly, I may have confused with with RDKirk, would not shock me...What evidence is it that you're referring to here? Or what post above are you wanting me to support?
High Philo, trust you to links two long reads. I have read most of the first link and I think I get the jist of what its saying. But I am not sure of your point in relation to what I was saying about how the ideas put forward by academics today through the Critical theories with a Postmodernist aned Marxist twist are any better than the twisted views of the Church or even Humanity for that matter.Maybe. But I think folks will be hard pressed to find that, in the final accounting of my analytical retinue, they can fully entertain the thought that I'm biased and, indeed, have the matching ears of an ass. In fact, if they check one ear, they might find that it looks something like this...
1) Loynes Sr, D. T. (2017). A God Worth Worshiping: Toward a Critical Race Theology.
... while the other ear looks like this...
2) Paradise, B. (2014). How critical race theory marginalizes the African American Christian tradition. Mich. J. Race & L., 20, 117.
High Philo, trust you to links two long reads. I have read most of the first link and I think I get the jist of what its saying. But I am not sure of your point in relation to what I was saying about how the ideas put forward by academics today through the Critical theories with a Postmodernist aned Marxist twist are any better than the twisted views of the Church or even Humanity for that matter.
I think we can all agree that there is racism and systemic racism and a bunch of other 'isms' like materialism, individualism, conservativism, dogmatism. I like how the first article explained inherent white views of the world and how these can erase other races. No one is denying this. What the problem for many seem to be is that there is a difference between a Critical analysis and Critical theories which are more an ideology than an analytic method.
It seems to me that there is an over correction in adressing past injustices where we are repeating the same mistakes but in a deifferent modern way. Now instead of the Church through traditional religion we have created or rather engineered a new religion, an ideological belief as the basis for establishing a New Utopia of equality, diversity and inclusion.
This new religion is just as oppressive as the percieved Western/Christian one. It is just a bit harder to see because it doesn't dress itself in religious garb but rather appeals to common nobel reasons which are the Trojan horse for an agenda and it is an agenda. A purposely critical and confrontational one that divides society.
It stems from the Critical theories which were born from the Civil Rights, Sexual and Womens revolutions into academia. It has taken on more Postmodernist and Marxist lenses in recent times. This is evidenced by the polarisation, conflicting even to the point of cancelling and policing language, creation of new language and discourse enforced on society, threats, percieved threats and violence.
These are the hallmarks of religious and ideological belief and not reality or a nobel reason because it goes against what we know to be true equality and inclusion. You can't claim equality and inclusion which shutting down opposition. Both sides are now guilty of extreme and radical thinking.
That is why I say that whatever you want to call what is happening today, Woke, identity politics, cancel culture, PC or BLM and Gender neutral its not working. This ideology has been around for years. We can trace it into the Universities, Institutions and society as a whole. This change has been the most suddenlt and radical change we have seen in history, too sudden for anyones liking that its a natural evolution but rather a socially engineered one.
Yeah sorry about that I will get around to reading the second one. The first one was interesting but I just didn't want to leave replying for too long and wanted to get some feedback.So.......................you didn't touch the second source I listed? I don't accept excuses from people about how my sources "are too long to read." That's a crap reason which I don't accept and amounts to anti-intellectual obfuscation. I engage other's sources; I darn well expect others to engage mine in reciprocal nature.
If not, this tells me you have zero idea about my own position and analysis on all of this. I'm already Anti-communistic. That should tell you enough.
But what you're doing is telling me things I already know as a person who has Master's degree in Social Science and Education---the very field in which CRT is taught...
Yeah sorry about that I will get around to reading the second one. The first one was interesting but I just didn't want to leave replying for too long and wanted to get some feedback.
Great article, thanks for that. I can see why you insisted I read it.That's fair. And then, if you have a source or two you'd like for me to read or peruse, let me know.
It was the outrage du jour a year or two ago.What is CRT?
First off, I have to apologize for insinuating that you haven't been playing with a straight deck. I have read enough of your posts that I should know better. but your recent sudden announcement that you were an Historical Dispensationalist hit me right where I am most likely to be a religious bigot.Maybe. But I think folks will be hard pressed to find that, in the final accounting of my analytical retinue, they can fully entertain the thought that I'm biased and, indeed, have the matching ears of an ass. In fact, if they check one ear, they might find that it looks something like this...
... while the other ear looks like this...
Somewhere, in the the ongoing ping-pong volley of this set of considerations, is a more reasonably assessed evaluation of the pros and cons of CRT.
No, I didn't say that I was a Historical Dispensationalist. You may have missed the posts (or three) where I've clarified my point as a Historical (or Historicized) Premillennialist. It's different than Dispensationalism.First off, I have to apologize for insinuating that you haven't been playing with a straight deck. I have read enough of your posts that I should know better. but you recent sudden announcement that you were an Historical Dispensationalist hit me right where I am most likely to be a religious bigot.
As to CRT. I looked through those two articles. Some of it I agree and some I don't, a lot of it is just scholarly bumf. What I don't see is an existential threat to Western Civilization. You do have a more nuanced view of such things, maybe you can enlighten me.
Well, of course. Trump is giving them the trans bans they wanted so that critical threat to Western Civilsation has been averted. MAGA!It was the outrage du jour a year or two ago.
It followed "defund the police" which was losing its capacity to trigger.
Its been displaced by trans panic which still has some legs, but shows signs of tiring.
No, those two articles merely discussed CRT as applied to a particular issue. CRT itself is issue free and is used to analyze, for instance, the differential effect of racism on Hispanic men and women, etc. Nobody seems to take issue with studies like that, It's not always about black people and white people but when it is, boy is there a reaction. All of a sudden CRT becomes the coordinating intelligence behind everything that's bad--LGBT, DEI, 1519, single payer health care, AGW, gun control... So who is it that is being threatened and why?No, I didn't say that I was a Historical Dispensationalist. You may have missed the posts (or three) where I've clarified my point as a Historical (or Historicized) Premillennialist.
First off, I wouldn't deign to make the mistake of implying that two lonely, isolated articles, however much on two sides of the CRT track they may be, offer anything in the way of a comprehensive exploration of CRT. I'm simply positing that CRT can be criticized, like most human theories can be, despite the ardent stances of some on the Left who may refuse to discern otherwise. Likewise
What's worse than Critical Race Theory is Critical Theory and/or blatant communism, in whatever form. And wherever I see some trend from the Left or the Right to appropriate 'revolutionary' types of political antidotes to what ails society, whether it's between ethnic groups, or political groups, or religious groups, that's where I'll show up.
I'll also show up when certain folks make inflated claims in favor of either their religion or their favored political brands.
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[[Also, ............. and I hate to admit this.............I don't think I intended to cite CRT but rather CT in general. My bad. It's what I get for working outside in the hot sun and not taking the time to think about what I was referencing. Now, I see I misdirected my intended gripe.]]
I just made a correction above to my intended insinuation. I'm not quite sensing that you're grasping my correction. Yeah, I misspoke by referring to CRT when I meant to refer to CT. And I explained why in this particular instance. CRT isn't what I'm getting at.No, those two articles merely discussed CRT as applied to a particular issue. CRT itself is issue free and is used to analyze, for instance, the differential effect of racism on Hispanic men and women, etc. Nobody seems to take issue with studies like that, It's not always about black people and white people but when it is, boy is there a reaction. All of a sudden CRT becomes the coordinating intelligence behind everything that's bad--LGBT, DEI, 1519, single payer health care, AGW, gun control... So who is it that is being threatened and why?
And it's even more threatening when it can be linked to Karl himself, of course. It's just a tool--like saying--I was mugged last week by a man with a hammer, therefore that carpenter over there using a hammer must be planning to mug me. But there is no threat of communism here, not yet. The Right calls Bernie a communist and he and AOC are the only major players on the political scene today who are supporting actual free-market capitalism. No communism yet, but let's see how the working class feels after being screwed over while beguiled with lurid fantasies about other people's sex lives.
No, my question is still out there: what is the existential threat?I just made a correction above to my intended insinuation. I'm not quite sensing that you're grasping my correction. Yeah, I misspoke by referring to CRT when I meant to refer to CT. And I explained why in this particular instance. CRT isn't what I'm getting at.
But we can drop it if you want.
No, my question is still out there: what is the existential threat?
Yes, you are not defending CRT, but you have studied it, yes you are not a MAGA Christian but you are closer to them theologically than I am. I hoped you might know something. Why is CRT seen as such a serious threat to our nation? Why can't it just be "stupid" or "wrong?" I can't get an answer from the hard religious right beyond that its purpose is to punish little white boys and girls by making them feel personal guilt and shame for the sins of ther slaveholding ancestors (at least that's what Ron De Santis and other conservatives have said publically). Do you have any idea what their real reasons could be?The existential threat of what? CT? I'm not here to rail against CRT. I hope I've made that clear.
I will rail against various strong forms of Marxism. But not only Marxism.
Where the Left is missing it, I think, is in the fact that "equality" has to be artificially produced and it can't simply come from the top down, especially if it's a 'grassroots' form of politics.
The fact is, life isn't fair, and none of us are born equal, or clones. So, for us to have "as much and as good as" among us, we have to do more than expect a government to manhandle our politics and laws to force economic stratification upon everyone alike or similarly. No, we have to become a society of true beneficence, and until that can happen-----and there's no place it's really happened as yet, with Denmark being no exception-----then our world will continue to Hem and Haw and Teeter Totter as it always has.
If we want to see an existential threat, we can simply look at history and see those places and/or nations that have dabbled with forced equality and how well they've done and how well they do.
How? I think you're imputing to me what you are only surmising about my religious beliefs at this point, BCP. There's a lot I hold back .................Yes, you are not defending CRT, but you have studied it, yes you are not a MAGA Christian but you are closer to them theologically than I am.
I hoped you might know something. Why is CRT seen as such a serious threat to our nation? Why can't it just be "stupid" or "wrong?" I can't get an answer from the hard religious right beyond that its purpose is to punish little white boys and girls by making them feel personal guilt and shame for the sins of ther slaveholding ancestors (at least that's what Ron De Santis and other conservatives have said publically). Do you have any idea what their real reasons could be?
You are a Protestant, are you not?How? I think you're imputing to me what you are only surmising about my religious beliefs at this point, BCP. There's a lot I hold back
No. Not scholars. I was more interested in what the purported mechanism might by such that obscure scholars can bring down whole nations. Scholars can't do that by themselves. They, themselves don't do the shaming and I don't even see why the shaming is such a threat..................
The answer will depend on which CRT theorist we attempt to engage and deconstruct. Like Christian theologians, or other philosophers, they're not always consistent among themselves. What they do bring in, usually, is the notion that they somehow should have the imminent right to 'define' their reality (via a Marxian mode of thought) and it's this notion which those on the political, fundamental Right then overreact to.
Notice here I say that the right 'overreacts,' and I say this because where CRT is concerned, there is such a thing as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The truth is, African-Americans, Native-Americans, Latin-Americans and many others have been suppressed and at times oppressed by various White individuals (which to be clear, doesn't imply that all White individuals have done so). We all know this and to deny these facts is tantamount to creating in one's head one's own social reality...........which doesn't exist.
Critical race theory | Examples, Public Schools, History, Tenets, & Criticism | Britannica
Critical race theory (CRT) is an intellectual and social movement and a framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is a socially constructed category that is used to oppress and exploit people of color. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal...www.britannica.com
Do you have a specific CRT scholar you'd like for me to engage and critique?
No. I'm not. I'm not sure why a few of you persist in that notion. I'm not Catholic. I'm not Orthodox. I'm not Protestant, or Anglican. We need to get off of this mistaken notion that in order to be a 'true Christian,' by default a person has to identify clearly as one of these three or four positions, as if these labels are all that are available by which to proxy our religious identities as Christians.You are a Protestant, are you not?
No. Not scholars. I was more interested in what the purported mechanism might by such that obscure scholars can bring down whole nations. Scholars can't do that by themselves. They, themselves don't do the shaming and I don't even see why the shaming is such a threat.
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