What is a mystic?

Isaacsname · Apr 25, 2016

In Babylonian times:

A person possessed by the " sehu " saw visions and omens

" sehu " is a synonym of " saru ", meaning " spirit " { of God }

~ Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, volume 13, page 370

Neochristian · Apr 25, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
How are you making that distinction?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Shamanism involves trances. Witchcraft involves magic.
Mysticism involves neither.

AGTG · Apr 25, 2016

Papias said:
No they don't. It's widely recognized among students of the Bibles that they often contradict Jesus' teachings. I mean, compare the soteriology of, say, Mt 25 with, say Paul's soteriology in Romans, and so on.

But then aren't you throwing out most of the Bibles? After all, much of the scriptures themselves come from mystical experiences, such as the many already posted about by Paul, or the burning bush, or Daniel's visions, or Jacob's ladder, or Mary's visit by an angel, and on and on.

So since those can't be a baseline for truth, the Bibles can't be trusted?

In Christ-

Papias

Why do you trust man more than God? I don't recognize students of the Bible more trustworthy than the Bible itself, and no one else should. God's Word explains God's Word.

Eudaimonist · Apr 25, 2016

Neochristian said:
Shamanism involves trances. Witchcraft involves magic.
Mysticism involves neither.

I didn't say or imply that either magic or trances were involved.

Though I don't see why mysticism can't involve trances.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Neochristian · Apr 25, 2016

Yeah, I was explaining the differences. Shamans use trances, mystics do not, otherwise they would be more like shamans.

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Tree of Life · Apr 25, 2016

What do you mean by "direct experience of God"?

Papias · Apr 25, 2016

AGTG said:
Why do you trust man more than God? I don't recognize students of the Bible more trustworthy than the Bible itself, and no one else should. God's Word explains God's Word.

Your Bible, unless you are having a mystical experience yourself, only supplies text. That means you have two choices:

1. Your interpretation informed by those who've spent years studying the scriptures and their history.
or
2. Your interpretation ignoring all other input.

It sounds pretty arrogant to think that your interpretation is going to be better than one that includes input from scholars.

Also, your ignored this:

But then aren't you throwing out most of the Bibles? After all, much of the scriptures themselves come from mystical experiences, such as the many already posted about by Paul, or the burning bush, or Daniel's visions, or Jacob's ladder, or Mary's visit by an angel, and on and on.

So you are saying that since those can't be a baseline for truth, the Bibles can't be trusted?

In Christ-

Papias

durangodawood · Apr 25, 2016

Tree of Life said:
What do you mean by "direct experience of God"?

if you are asking someone to explain the mystical experience in a brief paragraph. Well, good luck.

Its difficult enough for those who've had the experience. How much harder for those who havent?

Tree of Life · Apr 25, 2016

durangodawood said:
if you are asking someone to explain the mystical experience in a brief paragraph. Well, good luck.

Its difficult enough for those who've had the experience. How much harder for those who havent?

I don't need an explanation of the mystical experience. I just want an explanation of that phrase. I suppose it's as opposed to an indirect experience of God?

Neochristian · Apr 25, 2016

Tree of Life said:
What do you mean by "direct experience of God"?

I'm not sure. I was quoting a dictionary. I suppose it means you know God personally.

lesliedellow · Apr 25, 2016

In Christian terms a mystic is somebody who is seriously advanced in the life of prayer, and who consequently is more intimately involved with God than most of us.

now faith · Apr 25, 2016

Mysticism or to practice it, is the individual persons search for a higher meaning in religious experience.

The person seeks to gain knowledge of the Creator,and the dynamics of the universe.
Most Mystics use hallucinogenic drugs to reach their higher understanding.

Other methods are fasting,meditation, visualisation to reach their goal, yet the methods still create a altered state of mind due to the effects of deprivation.

To evaluate the experience would be to compare it to a dream while awake.

Seeking a mystical experience may open doors to things you may not want to have in your life.
Because the existence of a temporal being some how entering a Spirtual realm would be a gift if it was God given,but if sought out by the temporal man or woman is a work of your own will.

Ecclesiastes: 12. 5. Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6. Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. 8. Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

Neochristian · Apr 25, 2016

Good! But mind-altering is shamanism not mysticism.

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now faith · Apr 26, 2016

Neochristian said:
Good! But mind-altering is shamanism not mysticism.

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Shamanism would be a category of mysticism.
Mysticism would be considered a Rubric due to its variety of practice methods.

Example :Christianity by definition is the belief in Christ as God and with God.
Underneath it's umbrella are various denominations, with a wide variety of proprietary beliefs, yet one common belief.

Eudaimonist · Apr 26, 2016

Neochristian said:
Good! But mind-altering is shamanism not mysticism.

Where are you getting that distinction from? It sounds artificial to me.

eudaimonia,

Mark

now faith · Apr 26, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
Where are you getting that distinction from? It sounds artificial to me.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Not to be rude in answering for the other person,but to clarify.
He was making a reference to Theistic Shamanism being relative to my reply ,yet shamanism does teach out of body travel.
Other practices also teach the same thing such as witchcraft,it is all mystical in nature.

ViaCrucis · Apr 26, 2016

What is mysticism also largely depends on the tradition.

Hesychast mysticism, as found in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, can never be disconnected from the institutional nature and structures of the Church. The interior life is always an extension of and in connection with the exterior life of the Church. Indeed, the inner spiritual is developed by the Sacraments and the sacramental, as well as the life of prayer, faith, and good works.

-CryptoLutheran

Neochristian · Apr 26, 2016

now faith said:
Not to be rude in answering for the other person,but to clarify.
He was making a reference to Theistic Shamanism being relative to my reply ,yet shamanism does teach out of body travel.
Other practices also teach the same thing such as witchcraft,it is all mystical in nature.

I'm sorry. We're just going to have to disagree.

Neochristian · Apr 26, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
Where are you getting that distinction from? It sounds artificial to me.

eudaimonia,

Mark

It's been so long I can't remember anymore. Dictionary might be one.

Neochristian · Apr 26, 2016

now faith said:
Shamanism would be a category of mysticism.
Mysticism would be considered a Rubric due to its variety of practice methods.

Example :Christianity by definition is the belief in Christ as God and with God.
Underneath it's umbrella are various denominations, with a wide variety of proprietary beliefs, yet one common belief.

That doesn't seem to be what my sources are indicating.

What is a mystic?

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