Like 3 are one, God is a nature, man is a nature, list 3 gods and say they have one god. say something in the image of something is the thing it is in the image of, etc. Invent terms that have no meaning like person of god. or just terms peculiar to them like triune god, incarnation, one substance (homoousia) but never say what that one substance is course your salvation depends on believing it.I would have to agree with AskMrR's response.
I think his criteria list is from Margaret Singer?
Cults do not have to be religious in nature.
You can have a 'cultic' relationship, say, between two people going on.
Have you ever hear the term "battered wife syndrome"?
The relationship going on there could be termed 'cultic'.
The cultic environment is one where a pattern of manipulation, deception, thought stopping and abuse (mental and/or physical) is present.
Here is one more list to think about:-
1. There is a unhealthy control of communication within the group.
e.g. what you can read, who you can talk to, what you can say.
2. A group language exists i.e. those outside the group haven't got a clue what the member is talking about. They speak in 'cultese'.
Like confessing to a priest.mannesee said:3. You have to find the truth of what the leader/system teaches, whether it is true to you or not.
4. There is an extremely high demand for confessional practices within the group. These can be one to one, or one to a number of persons.
L:ke if you leave the catholic church you are unsaved cause salvation is only in the catholic church.mann said:Even if you cannot find anything to confess, you still have to confess to what the leader is accusing you of.
5. Everyday events come to be seen as a result of the leader's workings, rather than having other, more sensible, explanations.
6. If you leave the group or relationship, bad things are going to happen to you.
like all non catholics are heretics according to catholics.mann said:7. Those who are outside the group are seen as inferior, and not to be associated with.
The cultic environment is one where a pattern of manipulation, deception, thought stopping and abuse (mental and/or physical) is present.
Here is one more list to think about:-
1. There is a unhealthy control of communication within the group.
e.g. what you can read, who you can talk to, what you can say.
2. A group language exists i.e. those outside the group haven't got a clue what the member is talking about. They speak in 'cultese'.
3. You have to find the truth of what the leader/system teaches, whether it is true to you or not.
4. There is an extremely high demand for confessional practices within the group. These can be one to one, or one to a number of persons.
Even if you cannot find anything to confess, you still have to confess to what the leader is accusing you of.
5. Everyday events come to be seen as a result of the leader's workings, rather than having other, more sensible, explanations.
6. If you leave the group or relationship, bad things are going to happen to you.
7. Those who are outside the group are seen as inferior, and not to be associated with.
Dr. Charles Braden, former professor at Northwestern University, provides this definition: "By the term cult I mean nothing derogatory to any group so classified. A cult, as I define it, is any religious group which differs significantly in some one or more respects as to belief or practice from those religious groups which are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total culture"(These Also Believe, New York, Macmillan, 1951, p. xii.)
Based on this definition, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians (whose beliefs are parallel with the JWs), Christian Science, Spiritism, New Age, Mormons, etc. are cults, as their beliefs diverge considerably from orthodox Christianity as summarised in, say, The Nicene Creed.
The Christadelphians (Cd) have no leader at all and all the ecclesia's are totally free. all members can also freely express their opinion.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]a useful checklist to determine if a group exhibits cult-like characteristics:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
No such thing exist by the Christadelphians. Questions may be asked and it will even be encouraged to examine the Scriptures and to ask questions about it.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]2.‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
There are no repetitive songs or text said. Christadelphians have nothing of "speaking in tongues" which is more for the Pentecostals. (Would you consider them than as a cult or sect?) Every Cd is free to choose what he want to do in and for the community.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Cd have no leader and no hierarchy.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4. ‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marryor leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Cd do not think any body more special to the other. Also about being able to be chosen we leave it to God. He is the one who decide who is going to enter in the Kingdom. It is not up to people to judge. Jesus shall be the Judge in name of His Father. The General Doctrines of Christianity laid up by Trinitarians? By following Jesus Christ you become a Christian. According to this saying a lot of Christians are excluded from Christianity. How would you call those (real) followers of Christ?[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avataror the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). Or the group denies the central doctrines of Christianity: the Trinity (One God, three Persons), the deity of Christ as the second person of the Trinity, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Most Christians would look against non-Christians as heathen. Certain denominations in Christianity think that people from other denomination shall not be able to enter the Kingdom. Lots of them look down at other groups.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Like I said, by the Cd there is nobody declared thé leader or infallible. By the Catholics the Pope is considered unfailing in belief matters. Every body of the Catholic faith should follow him.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations)+.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Nothing unethical is permitted by the Cd and I am sure also not by the JW and Church of God or Abrahamic Faith.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviours or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
In the Cd families every body is free to choose which way they go or want to take. Even when they go to other churches they are still welcome at Cd meetings and other family members may meet them.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Today the problem is more that lots of people are concerned to keep up their living. But churchwork has to be done to. We have to spread the Good News. That was one of the tasks given by Jesus.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Lots of Trinitarian Churches did everything to fill their tills. Several Non-Trinitarian churches leave their members totally free to decide what they want to give to the working of the church, and in that instance it is to the local ecclesia and missionary fields. By the Cd their is no committee which requests a certain contribution per year.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]12. The group is preoccupied with making money. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
By JW they have to account for a certain hours perhaps, but this is not general for the non-trinitarian churches. By the Cd everybody is free to choose what and how much they do.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Is it not logic that you ask your church members to be more familiar with the other church members? Is not one of the 'rules' in Christianity to become "brothers and sisters in Jesus"? That is exactly what Christadelphians are: Brothers and sisters in Jesus. But they are not required to socialize only with their own members. How could they otherwise convert other people? All Cd are free to go to movies, theatres, disco's and so further. The only restrictions are that they should be careful that they do not something against the will of God. (So going to a sex theatre would not be in line.)[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
When it would be like that they have a psychological problem. But on the other hand their are also a lot of Catholics, Pentecostals, Methodists, etc who think they can not be different than the denomination their in. They have many difficulties to face up or to accept other thinkings than their own denomination. Some of them their is no way of salvation out of their denomination. Does it make them cults? I do not think so.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]15. The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] AMR[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
k2svpeter,
I said that the Christadelphian beliefs were parallel to the JWs. Your response was:
An assertion proves nothing. Please show me that the Christadelphian beliefs that I posted here are not similar to the JWs.?
In case you haven't seen them, these are Christadelphian beliefs from a Christadelphian website:
I don't have the time at the moment to show that these are essentially the same as the JWs. I'll do that in the next day or so. Work is calling.
But is this not something most Christians claim: that God is the Author of the Holy Scriptures?The Bible is God's word and the only message from him. It is without error, except for copying and translation errors. (2 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:1. See also: The Bible, Why I Believe the Bible, and Alleged Biblical Errors.)
That Cd find that there is only One God is also found by other non-Trinitarian Christians, which is logic that you find that then also by JW.There is only one God - the Father. The Holy Spirit is God's power. (John 17:3, Luke 1:35, Deuteronomy 6:4. See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity.)
Also hear it says clearly what is written in several passages in the Bible. On many occasions God declarered "This is my Son". The JW and Cd are both Bible Students or Bible Researchers, and like other Bible Students they keep to the writings in their Holy Books = the Holy Scriptures.Jesus is the Son of God, and also the son of a human being, his mother Mary, so making him Son of Man. Jesus was tempted just like us because of this. But Jesus was not just a great man, he was the Son of the Most High God, and was perfect. (Luke 1:30-31, John 3:18.See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity)
Cd take the Scriptures, and yes for this the JW say the same, like the Nazarene Friends, Church of God, and others.Man is mortal, having no existence when dead. (Psalm 6:5, Isaiah 38:18, Acts 2:29,34)
Catholics think this as well. Should we then say that they think the same as JW? On that part yes. But on a lot of other things they think totally different.By living a sinless life, ending with his sacrificial death by crucifixion, Jesus has opened the way of salvation from death. (Hebrews 4:15, 1 Corinthians 5:7, 1 Corinthians15: 20-23, Galatians 3:27-29)
This is also a part which you not only can find by JW and Cd. Catholics even think their little baby shall not go to heaven when they are not baptised. Cd and Baptists accept that those who were to young to know about God and about Jesus do not particularly have to be lost. We accept that it is up to God to decide who shall be saved. (This is totally different to JW, who think that only Jehovah Witnesses can be accepted in the Kingdom of God)Belief and baptism are essential steps to salvation. (Mark 16:16. See also Baptism and Salvation.)
I sincerely hope that more Christians do believe this. So no wonder that on this aspect Cd once more have to say the same thing as JW.God raised Jesus from death. Jesus is currently in Heaven, on God's right hand. He will one day return. (Acts 10:40, Romans 8:34, Acts 1:11)
Once more a big difference with what JW believe. For them Christ Jesus already governs this world since he came back in 1914. For Cd Jesus did not return yet, but when he shall come back he shall see the dead coming to live again to be judged. It shall be what many Christians call the Last Judgement.When Jesus returns, he will raise his "sleeping" followers from death and grant immortality to the faithful who have tried to live by God's precepts. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22)
When there is a Kingdom, you shall have a King. This King is Jesus Christ, Saviour and Messiah. God is a God of order who wants that everything is neatly organised. It is possible that the coming Kingdom shall have persons next to the King to govern it. (1 Corinthians 14: 33,40, Lucas 22:29,30) But already from the early years of the new era we had followers of Christ who were trying to bring peace and righteousness. Look at the apostles and those people who are called saints by many. We do believe that God has given powers to certain people to do different sorts of jobs. He also takes care of people who can bring the Good News to others. In certain denominations they are called pastor, vicar, minister, parson, priest, etc.) Cd do believe in the gifts of persons and that God can provide an ecclesia with the right people. (1 Corinthians 12: 18, 28) but we do not have priest or persons who are mightier then others. For us there is no Pope (like by the Catholics) or an organisation who is infallible.His followers will help him to rule, bringing justice, righteousness and peace to the whole world - the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 15:23-26)
What is a cult?
1. A religion or a sect considered extremist or false.
2. An obsessive devotion to a person or principle.
In that case anthing obsessive and false is a cult, correct me if I am wrong.
Here is a useful checklist to determine if a group exhibits cult-like characteristics:
3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
AMR
What is so "mind-altering" about Speaking in Tongues. I always get a kick out of this. Speaking in Tongues is perfect prayer that we share with God. It's that simple. Speaking in Tongues was an expected part of being born again in the first century church. In Acts 8, the Samarians did not manifest Speaking in Tongues, so Peter and John had to go down there and make sure they did. Over the years it seems that Christian have just become so lazy and fearful of Speaking in Tongues that it is considered "fringe." I suggest Christians should read 1 Corinthians 13-14.
I enthusiastically support what you have written in opposing “Ask Mr. Religion’s” view on the gift of tongues. The gift of tongues is a genuine, continuing biblical ministry.What is so "mind-altering" about Speaking in Tongues. I always get a kick out of this. Speaking in Tongues is perfect prayer that we share with God. It's that simple. Speaking in Tongues was an expected part of being born again in the first century church. In Acts 8, the Samarians did not manifest Speaking in Tongues, so Peter and John had to go down there and make sure they did. Over the years it seems that Christian have just become so lazy and fearful of Speaking in Tongues that it is considered "fringe." I suggest Christians should read 1 Corinthians 13-14.
While I agree that there are some in the "modern tongues-speaking phenomenon" who may give "bogus" manifestations, I cannot agree with any statement that this affirms that all of modern tongue speaking is bogus. I have been in gatherings where God ministered to me through tongues and interpretation.While I consider the modern tongues-speaking phenomenon to be completely bogus, I agree with you that Mr. Religion's "take" on the bigger subject, cults, was off the mark. For one thing, he attempted to characterize behavior that might be exhibited by cults rather than define what a cult is. Non-cults exhibiting "cult-LIKE" characteristics is not the issue.
That’s one of the great benefits for those of us who accept the Scriptures in the original manuscripts as the infallible word of God. At least we have a reasonably standard base (after answering textual questions) from which to determine the true vs. the false. There may be disagreements over etymology and some grammatical constructions, but there is at least a base from which to operate and determine the true from the false.Who gets to determine if it's false?
I still think that educating people about cult structure/effects upon members is far more important than defining a cult simply by its theology.
i.e. discussing the sociological and psychological aspects as this is what causes the damage to group members.
Having been a group member for 7 years of what is considered in the U.S. as manipulative at best, and a cult at worst. I won't be naming the group here though.
So a short list of the harmful practices I experienced, which in total had the effect of mental abuse and took a few years to recover from:-
- twisting of the scriptures to force authority over members time and minds
- erosion over time of friendships outside the group
- expressing views differing from scriptures being twisted resulting in degrees of shunning
- eroding of individual personality and interests
- being molded mentally into the leader's speech patterns
- slow loss of individual dress, adopting group ideal dress
- being advised to cut off academic studies and give more time to group
- prolonged aural sensation bombardment in worship and daily group prayer attendance > trance-like state
- constant lack of sleep due to must-be-at group activites after work
long term effects upon leaving group:-
- numbness in mind
- prolonged spaced-out periods
- sudden crying periods
- lack of interest in everyday activites/common tasks
- unable to concentrate for long periods while reading
- shunning by former friends
and many other harmful effects
The "Christian" cults are most disturbing to me, in that they convert a desirous seeker of Christ into a clone of their own founder or school of theology.
A "cult" will very well be the broad road to destruction for many.
That would be any "church" sytem that is formed around the teachings of a man or a woman, and recommends/coerces or requires its members to follow their edicts, guides, creeds and/or publicated books and doctrines.
Especially cultish are those "persons" who feel that if you don't belong to their church or believe as they do, that person is lost.
It is also very "cultish" to belong to a religion just because that is where your family goes to church at.
You will know you are in a cult by some very simple tests, just to name a few...
Foremost, the "church" you attend, was it founded upon a man or woman's teaching? And do you know this person's name?
Does the title of your church use a man's name in it other than the Name of Jesus?
Other than a simple Bible, does your church have or recommend "books" or "marginal-teaching-Bibles" that "explain" things to you?
Do you accept the church's rationale or a leader's word on a scripture, even though it is the opposite of what the scripture seems to say?
Can you be easily identified to a religion because of the style of the building?
Can you be easily identified to a church because of the day they worship?
Does the way you preach identify you with a specific "Christian" religion soon after opening your mouth?
Can you be identified with a religion because of your attire while walking down a street?
Is your religion led by others who wear out of the ordinary attire in their worship service?
In your worship service, are their protocols or rites performed other than baptism by water and the breaking of bread and drinking of wine?
In your worship service, is water baptism or breaking of bread and drinking of wine "optional" or not observed at all?
Does your religion employ others to lead them and they speak in a differant language than you can understand?
Does your religion use any words or terms in their worship and teachings that aren't found in the Bible?
Does your church's religion throw the word "truth" out there in reference to itself?
If the Lord reveals what you know to be truth and it doesn't agree with your church doctrine, might you be given the right foot of dis-fellowship because of it?
Does your religion claim that some classes of people are more "special" or "chosen" or "elect" than another class of people because of their religion or ancestry?
Does your religion "futurize" events of God?
Most importantly, is your religion founded upon any other concept other than Salvation in Jesus Christ?
Does your religion tell you that Jesus Christ has not fulfilled and abolished the O.T. Law of Moses?
Does your religion worship any other God but the One True God of Israel?
Does your religion use a "word" or a "term" or an "explanation" describing God other than a word you would find in the Bible?
If so, you are in a cult and may want to seriously consider what you are spending your time at.
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