What is a counter-missionary?

SGM4HIM · Feb 15, 2011

There were many revivals that began in the mid 90's. Many peoples lives were touched dramatically. Ask Michael L Brown. Brownsville lasted 5 yrs.

While there may be a percentage of flakes that one has doubts about, I would not categorically cast too many dispersions against any of these revivals.

Many age, sexual, denominational, and racial barriers were broken. Many hearts were circumcised. Many hundreds of thousands of people were affected.

yedida · Feb 15, 2011

SGM4HIM said:
There were many revivals that began in the mid 90's. Many peoples lives were touched dramatically. Ask Michael L Brown. Brownsville lasted 5 yrs.

While there may be a percentage of flakes that one has doubts about, I would not categorically cast too many dispersions against any of these revivals.

Many age, sexual, denominational, and racial barriers were broken. Many hearts were circumcised. Many hundreds of thousands of people were affected.

I tend to stay away from them. I'm very wary of things like that now, cause I got soooo deceived before......I've been shone the Light and I don't want it dimmed. If God is going to physically heal my bodyt (and it needs it) He'll do it right here in my lving room. I don't have to go to some revival.

I guess the reason I don't trust these revivals is because it's mostly raw emotion. Everybody gets swept up in the heat of it, and very often it's not real. Though I imagine for some it is, but I don't require it for worship.

Lulav · Feb 15, 2011

anisavta · Feb 15, 2011

The L~rd has indeed used revivals through the centuries to rekindle the flame of spiritual awakening. The 70s brought the Jesus Movement where many Jews found their Messiah for the first time. But the word revival means just that - a reviving of the spirit towards a closer walk with G~d. Now it seems revivals means, "what can G~d give me to make me healthy and wealthy. And it usually creates sensational signs. Hysterical laughter, barking (never could understand that one), angels with names who help people, bodies jerking, loud noises etc. Interesting when Yeshua healed people, many times He'd take the person away from the crowd altogether.
We humans tend to commercialize any manifestation of the Spirit.

yedida · Feb 15, 2011

Amen Anisavta!!
I'd always thought that the Spirit was to be beneficial to the body (of believers). I've yet to figure out how I or anyone else benefits from a couple dozen people lying on the ground shaking.
(I've actually watched a few of those people later in the parking lot. You know, they don't act any differently than those who did not wallow out on the floor! You'd think that there'd be something different about them after such an experience!)
I can say this without feeling guilty because I used to be one of them.......(like I said, a lifetime of baaaaad teaching).

anisavta · Feb 15, 2011

My experience with the Shekina - Presence of G~d is - the more manifest He becomes, the quieter I get. And like Isaiah my first response is, I am so small in the presence of such Greatness. Whoa is me.

yedida · Feb 15, 2011

Same here. There is a trembling, but it is inward, and it's oh so quiet, a calming that can't be explained. And you walk out of that Presence changed!!!!

anisavta · Feb 15, 2011

Lulav · Feb 16, 2011

anisavta · Feb 16, 2011

Because MJ is so new and still working out bugs, we have not been able to adequately filter out the bad and ugly from this new movement. You have the Christian influence brought in to congregations with the Woofers and prophesy folk on one side of the coin and on the other we have kabbalistic practices. Because the congregations (even under the umbrella of organizations such as UMJC and MJAA) are pretty much franchises, there is not the heavy handed regulation that there is in some Christian denoms. So rabbis and congregations bring in their own influences without check and balance.
I find the whole "signs and wonders" thing an embarrassment to the Christian church. I have seen amazing miracles and signs happen in my years as a believer, but thankfully I can recognize the true from the glitz.

yedida · Feb 16, 2011

When I find myself in an MJ congregation like that, I don't return - it's just a charismatic group jumping on a new bandwagon. I walked away from all that mess for almost 10 years. When I returned it was at the Holy Spirit's urging and His teachings for first century Yeshua-based Judaism, I won't accept a substitute. No way.
I simply read Paul with a grain of salt and then check to see what Yeshua or Torah has to say on the same subject....As I've said before, if there's a conflict of any sort, Yeshua and Torah win hands down!!

anisavta · Feb 16, 2011

We give Rabbi Saul a hard time - and I'm sure he already has a line from here to eternity of disgruntled women waiting to give him what for. But considering the group of people he was dealing with gives us a clue as to why he said some of the things he said. People coming out of heavy pagan practices, masters and slaves not governed by Torah admonitions, temple prostitutes, homosexuals and the list goes on. He's trying to introduce them to Torah in ways they'd grasp and some of his teachings are harsh.

Heber · Feb 16, 2011

anisavta said:
We give Rabbi Saul a hard time - and I'm sure he already has a line from here to eternity of disgruntled women waiting to give him what for. But considering the group of people he was dealing with gives us a clue as to why he said some of the things he said. People coming out of heavy pagan practices, masters and slaves not governed by Torah admonitions, temple prostitutes, homosexuals and the list goes on. He's trying to introduce them to Torah in ways they'd grasp and some of his teachings are harsh.

We can see that, and worse, when he tells the Gentiles that they must give up their bad ways, now they are coming to worship Yeshua, and lists those bad ways, several times over in different places. Most people assume he is talking to the Jews - he's NOT! It is NOT that Paul is a mysogynist, that is our take on his words, reading him with 21st century specs on and a brain that cannot work out what scripture is really saying, and to whom.

Tishri1 · Feb 20, 2011

Hi Just to get back to the OP...... Question for the Messianics:........Should we then stop telling non MJ Jews about Yeshua and the NT? and...... Are MJ's being miss labled Missionaries when we fellowship with non MJ Jews and share our faith with them(the way we have described in this thread)?

anisavta · Feb 22, 2011

First off we need to define a "real Jew". One who is born of Jewish DNA? One who converts and according to a beit din now has a nefish yehudi? One who is only Orthodox?
Secondly - a anti(counter) missionary is just as irritating to a Messianic JEW as a missionary is to a non messianic Jew. Especially ones who come to a forum for the express purpose of argument and disturbance. So perhaps your purposes would be better suited if you found a good Orthodox forum and post all you want with those who agree with you that we are the scourge of the earth. And we'll stay here and fellowship and debate and ask questions of each other in like mind. Oh and BTW we have non messianic Jews here who are men and women of integrity, who disagree with our beliefs but still consider us worthy of conversation. Nuff said.

Desert Rose · Feb 22, 2011

anisavta said:
First off we need to define a "real Jew". One who is born of Jewish DNA? One who converts and according to a beit din now has a nefish yehudi? One who is only Orthodox?
Secondly - a anti(counter) missionary is just as irritating to a Messianic JEW as a missionary is to a non messianic Jew. Especially ones who come to a forum for the express purpose of argument and disturbance. So perhaps your purposes would be better suited if you found a good Orthodox forum and post all you want with those who agree with you that we are the scourge of the earth. And we'll stay here and fellowship and debate and ask questions of each other in like mind. Oh and BTW we have non messianic Jews here who are men and women of integrity. Who disagree with our beliefs but still consider us worthy of conversation. Nuff said.

very eloquently said!Go Californians! one can tell you had your morning coffee and enjoy great weather, I here shovel perpetual snow and suffer from deep brain freeze.

yeah, term "real Jew" he uses as it looks like - "Jew, adherent of Judaism" ;not in a sense that other jews' ethnicity or religion is questioned.

Indeed, its a pleasure to communicate with people of different faiths, we all learn from each other. But only if one treats others beliefs with great respect and appreciation, and humbleness. Nobody has a monopoly on truth. As saying goes, "learn from people that seek the truth, run away from those who say they found it all "

visionary · Feb 23, 2011

All through History you can find groups of people getting back/staying at the roots of Judaism as it was seen through the eyes of Yeshua and the apostles.. true they were small rejected and pesrsecuted pockets from both sides of the fence but they have always existed under one name or another... Here is a thread dedicated to those throughout history who were living a more "Judaism style worship with a love for Yeshua as their Messiah..." http://www.christianforums.com/t4145248/

FaithPrevails · Feb 23, 2011

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rsduncan · Mar 6, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
I'm not coming down on the desert. It's gorgeous. But, living in the desert is like living in Missouri - you're bound to run into some extremists!

If you want to see some real extremists, go to Topeka, Kansas!!!

What is a counter-missionary?

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