• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What I'm Reading -- How About You?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes

cygnusx1

Jacob the twister.....
Apr 12, 2004
56,208
3,104
UK Northampton
Visit site
✟94,926.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married

Don't worry sister , I am in the same place , I haven't got much free time and I have other interests , I dib into books a bit still but I haven't read a book through in ages.

currently dibbing into ;

By His Grace and for His Glory / Nettles

The Charismatics / John McArthur

currently thinking about completing my Geneva Bible series (Lewis Lupton)
 
Upvote 0
H

HamletsChoice

Guest
Izdaari said:
I'm currently reading The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning, and liking it very much so far.
Click to expand...

Intersting, I'm reading A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen and he writes against The Spiritual Formation Movement and Brennan Manning in particular. He writes that Brennan Manning has adopted eastern mysticism and pro-homosexual beliefs into his teachings and doctrines.

He quotes Manning:

"This is a typical patriarchal notion of God. He is the God of Noah who sees people deep in sin, repents that He made them and resolves to destroy them. He is the God of the desert who sends snakes to bite His people because they murmured against Him. He is the God of David who practically decimates a people ... He is the God who exacts the last drop of blood from His Son, so that His just anger, evoked by sin, may be appeased. This God whose moods alternate between graciousness and fierce anger, This God does not exist."-FromAbove All, Brennan Manningpg. 58

“I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word [it’s] bibliolatry. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants” -From Signature of Jesus, Brennan Manning, pp. 188-89.(page 174 in a later edition)

“The first step of faith is to stop thinking about God at the time of prayer.” -From Signature of Jesus, Brennan Manning, p. 212 (page 198 in a later edition)

In Abba's Child, (NAVPRESS, 1994) Brennan Manning says that Dr. Beatrice Bruteau is a "trustworthy guide to contemplative consciousness." (p. 180.) Who is Beatrice Bruteau and what does she believe? She is the founder of The School for Contemplation, and she believes God is within every human being. She wrote the book, What We Can Learn from the East.

"We have realized ourselves as the Self that says only I AM, with no predicate following, not "I am a this" or "I have that quality.” Only unlimited, absolute “I AM."-From A Song That Goes on Singing - Interview with B.B

In his book Signature of Jesus (pgs 203-205) Manning teaches a form of “prayer” where you chant a mantra to empty your mind (stop thinking) just like a Zen Buddhist. It is called “contemplative” or “centering prayer” and it supposedly brings you into the immediate, unmediated, presence of God. This “prayer” promotes the concept that one may enter the immediate presence of God via human technique, by the power of human effort.

Manning says the “scandal of the gospel of grace” is that even those who take the “mark of the beast” will get into Heaven. -From The Ragamuffin Gospel, Brennan Manning, pages 20, 21


Brief Examples from The Ragamuffin Gospel:

In Chapter 1, Manning correctly assails a gospel of works, but his view of sin is shallow. He quotes Tillich (certainly a heterodox voice) speaking of a "wave of light" experience "as though a voice were saying":
"You are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you, and the name of which you do not know. Do not ask for the name now. . . . Do not try to do anything now. . . . Simply accept the fact that you are accepted." If that happens to us we experience grace. (p. 29).
Manning goes on to say:
Something is radically wrong when the local church rejects a person accepted by Jesus: when a harsh, judgmental and unforgiving sentence is passed on homosexuals; when a divorcee is denied communion; when the child of a prostitute is refused baptism; when an unlaicized priest is forbidden the sacraments (p. 30).
The failure to see sinners as absolutely depraved and alienated from God in their natural state (rather than basically good people with some psychological hang-ups who "slip up" once in awhile) is a major flaw.

In Chapter 2, "Magnificent Monotony," Manning complains:
In my ministry as a vagabond evangelist, I have encountered shocking resistance to the God whom the Bible defines as Love. The skeptics range from the oily, over-polite professionals who discreetly drop hints of the heresy of universalism, to the Bible thumper who sees only the dusty, robust war God of the Pentateuch, and who insists on restating the cold demands of rule-ridden perfectionism.

Our resistance to the furious love of God may be traced to the church, our parents and pastors, and life itself. They have hidden the face of a compassionate God, we protest, and favored a God of holiness, justice, and wrath (pp. 36,37).
The failure to realize that the God of Sinai is also the God of Calvary is a serious problem. We must understand the requirements for redemption that God laid down in the Old Testament to be able to adequately understand the achievement of redemption in the New Testament.

Reiterating his view of grace and revealing his concept of salvation, Manning notes:
Over the years, the growing consciousness of radical grace has wrought profound changes in my self-awareness. Justification by grace through faith means that I know myself accepted by God as I am. When my head is enlightened and my heart is pierced by this truth, I can accept myself as I am. Genuine self-acceptance is not derived from the power of positive thinking, mind-games, or pop psychology. It is an act of faith in the God of grace (p. 49, italics his).
In Manning’s psychologized view of grace, self-acceptance is seen as the key to growth. Manning’s God is a universal Father of man, undistinguished from those with whom He has a special redemptive relationship. Manning’s gospel offers acceptance of self, not deliverance from sin.

Manning gives his view of the redemptive process:
For "experiencing God’s love in Jesus Christ means experiencing that one has been unreservedly accepted, approved and infinitely loved, that one can and should accept oneself and one’s neighbor. Salvation is joy in God which expresses itself in joy in and with one’s neighbor." (p. 63).
This is clearly a psychological salvation, not the full, eternal redemption purchased by Christ’s death and resurrection.

Manning’s "inner child" based anthropology (p. 64) leads to incredible statements:
If we maintain the open-mindedness of children, we challenge fixed ideas and established structures, including our own. We listen to people in other denominations and religions. We don’t find demons in those with whom we disagree. We don’t cozy up to people who mouth our jargon. If we are open, we rarely resort to either-or, either creation or evolution, liberty or law, sacred or secular, Beethoven or Madonna. We focus on both-and, fully aware that God’s truth cannot be imprisoned in a small definition…. But the open mind realizes that reality, truth, and Jesus Christ are incredibly open-ended (p. 65).
The uniqueness of God’s revelation in the Living Word and the written Word could hardly be more rigorously attacked.

Manning’s approach to the professing Christian is revealed in his view of sanctification. Rather than seeing man as transformed out of the kingdom of darkness (his natural state) and into the kingdom of light, he speaks of God’s love "mak[ing] us who we really are" (p. 111). This is common in the psychologized gospel, with fixation on man created in the image of God and possessing great worth and potential, rather than man as fallen and the enemy of God.

Manning defines evangelism: "To evangelize a person is to say to him or her: you, too, are loved by God in the Lord Jesus" (p. 120). Furthermore, he quotes psychiatrist Gerald May saying:
Honesty before God requires the most fundamental risk of faith we can take: the risk that God is good, that God does love us unconditionally. It is in taking this risk that we rediscover our dignity. To bring the truth of ourselves, just as we are, to God, just as God is, is the most dignified thing we can do in this life" (pp. 138,139).
Manning says in a later chapter that Jesus "insisted that his Father is crazy with love, that God is a kooky God who can scarcely bear to be without us" (p. 165). He says, "No, the love of our God isn’t dignified at all, and apparently that’s the way he expects our love to be" (p. 167). He further says:
Perhaps the simplest, though certainly not the easiest place to start, is with myself. Carl Jung, the great psychiatrist, once reflected that we are all familiar with the words of Jesus, "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me." Then Jung asks a probing question: "What if you discovered that the least of the brethren of Jesus, the one who needs your love the most, the one you can help the most by loving, the one to whom your love will be most meaningful—what if you discovered that this least of the brethren of Jesus… is you?" (p. 168, italics his).
What would an occult psychiatrist like Carl Jung, who rejected Christianity and considered all religions to be useful myths, know about Jesus’ love?

Conclusion

A man-centered gospel will always exalt man by downplaying his true sin nature. It will then reconstruct any and all elements of its theology to be consistent with that man-centeredness. Manning has clearly accomplished that objective in this, and presumably, other works. Man desires an egalitarian God Who is not sovereign and Who would never judge a person.

In evaluating this and any "practical" theological work, it is vitally important that the reader examine how the writer actually uses theological terms (in what sense do his examples and descriptions clarify what he means by their usage). One must not conclude that a work is orthodox just because the writer uses theologically correct words.

Manning’s views are very consistent with those advocated by most contemporary Christian psychologists. With the popularity of this movement in the evangelical church today, it is no wonder that this book has been widely read and acclaimed by professing Christians. According to Christianity Today (May 2003) Manning has been giving psychologist Larry Crabb "occasional spiritual direction for the last 14 years."

The Ragamuffin Gospel A Critique by Bill Isley, MD
 
Reactions: McWilliams
Upvote 0

Izdaari Eristikon

Well-Known Member
Mar 12, 2007
6,174
448
71
Post Falls, Idaho
✟47,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for the heads up, HC. I haven't gotten much further into the book since I posted, haven't had much free time, but I'll bear that in mind as I continue reading. However, on some of those things I'm likely to agree with Manning.
 
Reactions: McWilliams
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I'm actually finished with it now, and lent it to Frumanchu, but I recently read John Adams, and found it a very interesting book. Actually looking forward to seeing the HBO miniseries based on the book. I've dropped some broad hints about that as a Christmas present.....
 
Upvote 0

edie19

Legend
Site Supporter
Sep 5, 2005
20,810
10,316
69
NW Ohio (almost Michigan)
Visit site
✟136,291.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status

if you're close enough to Fru to lend him a book (without mailing it) you probably live fairly close to me
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
edb19 said:
if you're close enough to Fru to lend him a book (without mailing it) you probably live fairly close to me
Click to expand...

Huron Twp, just outside Sandusky. And, Fru is my son.....
 
Upvote 0

edie19

Legend
Site Supporter
Sep 5, 2005
20,810
10,316
69
NW Ohio (almost Michigan)
Visit site
✟136,291.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
nobdysfool said:
Huron Twp, just outside Sandusky. And, Fru is my son.....
Click to expand...

Now that you say that, I remember you telling me that about 2 years ago - sadly stuff just doesn't stay in my brain as long as it used to.

(I live not too far from Sylvania-Metamora Rd. - which I think eventually runs through his town)

one of these days I'm going to get him to my church for a visit
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
cygnusx1 said:
Fru is your son nbf !! WOW!!!!


oh to be there listening to your discussions
Click to expand...


Hehehe....we have some good ones!

Please keep Fru in your prayers. He's back home after having been diagnosed with MS, and spending a little over a week in the hospital. You can go to
this site to get the whole low-down.

He's getting better, but is still going to be seeing doctors and specialists. There are many praying for a complete and total recovery and healing of this, such that it never comes back. My prayer is for divine healing for him.
 
Upvote 0

cygnusx1

Jacob the twister.....
Apr 12, 2004
56,208
3,104
UK Northampton
Visit site
✟94,926.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married

sure will do bro . I wondered where Fru had gotten to , hadn't seen him post in ages.

I was watching the film King Solomon last night , David was old and he was ill , no healing came to David but sure I will always argue we must do all we can , pray beseech the Lord and expect great things , only as a last resort should we submit to our God sent burdens.

I hope you are well , those who are enemies of the Gospel of Free Grace (we know who they are) are merit mongers and are permitted by God so to speak , only that when they have come to their senses all the Glory will be the Lord's not any human arguement no matter how right and true.

oh the silence in heaven when men see salvation was all of grace election and predestination , where all boasting is banned and all Glory granted to God alone.
 
Reactions: McWilliams
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Rise And Reckoning: New Biography Confronts The Myths And Realities Of Joseph Smith
Replies
4
Views
346
Current News & Events (Articles Required)
RileyG
10 Things You Should Know About the Psalms...
Replies
0
Views
168
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
Fake interview with the Pope causes a stir in Italy. Why is it so important?
Replies
0
Views
106
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
Not a Demon, Not a God: What AI is Teaching Me About Being Human
Replies
3
Views
214
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
RileyG
THE REAL THREAT TO THE UNITY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE GERMAN CHURCH INCLUDING THEIR BISHOPS, SOME WHO ARE CARDINALS, A THREAT THAT THE…
Replies
0
Views
109
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
Menu
Log in
Register