What if?

drstevej said:

Our family is celebrating Christmas at Thanksgiving. How cool is that!

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I think that is a good idea. While I still celebrate Christmas with my family, I personally put more emphasis into the Thanksgiving holiday, where I spend all month long publically expressing my thanks for the many blessings God has bestowed upon me. Kudos to you.

Ran77 said:

I admit that the commercial exploitation of Christmas has made it a holiday that I now dread rather than enjoy. Too much Santa and stress over giving gifts and not enough focus on what it really represents.

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I don't accept gifts during the Xmas season and I don't purchase any either. I don't put up decorations or a tree and I don't wish anyone a merry Xmas.

Racist OP is racist.

Aye, the only people who ever declared a genuine war on Christmas were the Puritans. How's that for irony?

Not sure how it's ironic since Puritans and Muslims both like theocracy, but anyway, out of a billion Puritans it was only a tiny minority who were extremists. So desist with the hate speech lest I report you both to the Council on American-Puritan Relations.

smaneck said:

Thank God there aren't a billion Puritans!

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By that logic we should un-thank God that there are a billion Muslims?

Most Muslims, by the way don't want a theocracy. Just saying . . .

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"Just saying" don't make it so. And even if it did, those would be No True Muslims.

Well, admittedly, what can be said in favour of the majority of muslims is that they are people first and believers second, embracing far more modern and liberal values than an orthodox interpretation of their faith would allow for.

Then again, the same can be said about adherents of ALL the major religions out there. It's *ALWAYS* the hardliners that generate conflict, be they Hindu nationalists, ultra-orthodox Jews, Islamists, or fundamentalist Christians (just to mention a few).

smaneck said:

The question, really, is what constitutes the "orthodox interpretation"? In Roman Catholicism you have a church hierarchy that determines this. Islam has no such thing.

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Well, Islam has got a set of VERY specific scriptures that leave comparatively little room for interpretation. There's still wiggle space, of course (there always is), but in contrast to the highly heterogeneous mix that is the Biblical canon, it's pretty straightforward.

smaneck said:

Really like that No True Scotsman logic, huh?

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There's an atheist's thread currently in the Ethics forum titled "Why Are There No Extremist Christians?", and the OP explains what he thinks an extremist Christian should do: give all his money to the poor, wander around doing good deeds and such. I wonder if the proverbial Martian came to earth and we handed him the New Testament and the Koran, wouldn't the Martian ask Muslims "why aren't more of you shutting down businesses and lopping off heads and shooting up theatres?"

smaneck said:

Uh, no. Because the only verse in the Qur'an that says anything about lopping off people's heads is addressed to angels not people. What are Martian is more likely to ask, "Why aren't are so many of you ignoring the verse which states "There is no compulsion in religion.""

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No, it's clearly addressed to human Muslims. Allah wrote the book for humans. Otherwise it's a fail anyway because I've never heard a historical account or current news story about an angel beheading infidels to Islam. And even if you were right, is that supposed to improve my assessment of Islam?

There is no equivalent verse to this in the Bible, but we do have the following from Luke's Gospel which our Extremist Christian might come across:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

Luke 19

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I honestly don't know what personal interpretation you have of the fictional man in this parable. You think this is an instruction for Christians to kill non-Christians?

smaneck said:

The verse states it was the angels being addressed! What your hate blog did was deliberately cut out that part of the verse. Here is the full verse:

8.012 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

You obviously have never read the Qur'an. It contains stories of God addressing jinn, Satan, angels etc. You might try actually read the Qur'an before you start criticizing it. And by reading I mean reading it in its context not just the bits and pieces those who want to distort the Qur'an for their own purposes throw up.

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Who needs hate blogs when we have hadith and well-accepted Islamic commentary?
If we go with your translation, and according to you, why is Allah reminding men of what he said to the angels? Is it a side comment apropos of nothing?

And you never actually read the entire verse so you would know what it said or didn't say.

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So did angels fight the Battle of Badr? Before you accuse me of not reading you need to re-read at least 8:9 through 8:19.

I don't care what it does to your own assessment. We are talking about your hypothetical Martian who actually read the Qur'an, remember? Not someone who gets their info from hate blogs.

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Well you're right. It's not me or the Martian you need to convince that Islam is a religion of peace. It's all these Muslims with a Koran in one hand and a Kalishnikov in the other.

You realize that this 'fictional man' represents God?
Charlemagne did. 4500 Saxons were beheaded as a result.

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1. Have evidence that he took that parable as an instruction?

2. They were executed for committing treason against the king, not for being kuffar, and Saxons had the same punishment for treason amongst themselves.

3. It's 2015. A lot of things about war and criminal justice have changed within Christendom. Within Islam, not nearly as much as we'd like.

Just going off the title not being interested in the video like negative declarations some assert nor familiar with the Cultural ideologies among the Middle East concluding it's our teachers that cause us to learn about it all. Just taking a minute to write on what gives a Faith the energy to prevail is how it's passed down in time. See, what about the way things really are - in truth - how would one know, the mystery of life and thereafter. A Being so above all this could easily dissolve this creation whom at most like Zoroaster said one can encircle in mind contemplating. From what is the positive aspects of Religion? How could one begin to understand how a Faith was molded by a Founder. See, they were on the right path initially maybe just were did they decide to build the path upon where it has separated into divisions.

For what gain? Society? Could be. The community supports members arranging marriages not playing on a hope for adherence that they will sort through after of virgins and Paradise. History must be learned from or its said to repeat, knowledge increasing let's make the data known to great and least teaching each other ways to improve science, medicine, agriculture, irrigation, ect.The community or statute of governing how can a Culture thrive lest these, thebalance of Libra aligned. If I was a leader I would not want to be there unless the majority of the community chose me, it's about how the balance is designed Zoroaster taught.

Just hoping to encourage others to look at their foundational block. When one treats others like they would want to be treated, then as deeds done so may the deeds be applied to the source. Which I find amazing how a 'Golden Rule' was taught just taking a moment here in hopes I can share it with you and others may find this inspiration.

This as a Christian I find centered the concept by Jesus as God among us, teaching in what was provided as the incarnation of God in body to understand us as human beings on one of the Cosmos personally. I hope this wonderful words we can find if we are taught about them then the future leaders one day may allow others to worship with each other and learn about how another mind alone can really center things - like Zoroaster's quote preserved by the Magi - nice - never heard it like that with the common Mantra being good thought to good word to good deed.

See how we may be different yet find the same if looking in the right part of the sky so to speak. To dictate the earth with a brandished determination will result in non understanding amongst the people's to resentment and rebellion however to allow for ones personal choice expressed in Faith would cause being preferred as the desire of the communities. Why would one not abide by a fairly elected leader in place of one who has alter-ire reasons they declare are supposed to be made current repeating instead learning past.

A comet could shift all the orbits of Sun with even a mega flare who knows how or if we could ride it out. The international space station is a start but how could we go to planets by bending dimension maybe together we could compare ideas and make a way maybe we will fare like the dinosaurs who know - because of being told delusions I speak for myself here too thoughts just swirling it's a team effort we need.

The Divine needs space for consideration in Science and theories personally as in amongst these Faiths. To find Mohamed to declare those who follower of it as in contrast to truly believing the message presented. Finally something in common among all this ended my search for secret knowledge or the only true doctrines - seeing these really changed me, ultimate truth as variable as people's are led yet with this amazing sign of similarity not just copies of paragraphs but observations of singular diversity. To label others an inferior name is one thing a whole Faith like Baha'i l, ect explained in another's Religion instead of what they teach and uphold in practice amongst themselves and what they offer society I hope is seen needing alignments.

Nor have I grasp all this in full just want us all to just try to give sharing ideas and research without the superiority of Religion banner, difference s are genetic diversity thus educating our youth in society to be tolerant of Faiths is key - in Gods hands amongst us who would know what such a Creator radiated over many Cultures and regions looking into it may it guide your way.