What if you seek and don't find?

Oncedeceived said:

Yes, by not being with God you are against Him and are subject to Satan.



1. Yes. 2. Yes, the generation that "sees" all these signs which is our generation.


Three of the disciples wrote about this and only one had a break in the passage. That tells me that it belongs together.


That makes no sense. Why would it matter if He never talked about another imminent event in a short time span? Why would He?



I didin't say that Jesus couldn't be wrong. He said that He didn't know the time He would return, so being wrong would be due to His lack of the timing of this event. It makes more sense because of the necessary elements to His coming. You have to understand Daniel's prophecy and how it all comes together other than just this passage.

• Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son"

Did God foreknow you? IF God foreknew you and we know He did if He knows everything then He predestined you and every person ever born to be conformed to the image of His Son. Free will comes in by choice. It is your choice to go in the path that God destined you for or for you to take your own. We have passages that claim that God predestined certain people for certain purposes as well. However, that will not overrule man's own choice.




1. Yes.
2. Yes.
I believe that God took away Pharaoh's will at the moment for His own purposes. It however, did not alter his destiny of his eternal choice. God did not punish Pharaoh for the moment that God hardened his heart, he was punished for his own free will choices.



I really don't know. I think that when evil rises to the extent that there is no hope for man to choose to repent and their are children who are trapped in this evil that God feels mercy for them is better than free will.



See above.



Scripture says He is good, my experience says He is good. There are even within our limited human experience where something may appear to be immoral but be good and moral just the same. I believe I am justified in believing that if God is good as I have experienced and others in the Bible even have experienced and HE is truly Just and omniscient then it must be good. If I can think that there is a good and moral reason with only my limited human ability then I am justified to believe that there is a good and moral reason. That moral reason for instance, the survival of all mankind in the future. If all mankind would be eliminated if this action was not taken then the good far outweighs the bad actions that were necessary to insure mankind's future.


Yes. Hell is the separation from Good. There is no good in hell.

I believe that everyone is called but we are free to accept or reject.


So without observing A and not A this law would not exist? How if we were not here to observe A and Not A would it cease to be valid?


Faith is the only way in science to establish whether or not our beliefs do comport with reality or whether they comport better with reality than another belief. Science is based on the fact that we have faith that the universe is orderly and can be comprehended in a correct way, that tomorrow will be the same as today and yesterday. Science can only make sense if our minds are reliable and can comprehend the universe. The Bible only makes those claims and reality confirms it. Theism is a better explanation for why the universe is orderly and can be comprehended by human beings made in the image of God Himself.


So you agree that you being an atheist makes them incorrect? If not, what makes you think they are incorrect?


All Christian denominations to be Christian believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and rose again. All Christian denominations do believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and rose again.


The whole Bible supports this claim. WE don't become sinless we become able to not sin. We after Christ paid for our sins here on earth are free from the debt of sin and no longer are bound by it or have a desire for it. Christ gives us by accepting His payment in full the ability to desire not to sin.


In some cases yes.



You haven't shown that God doesn't call everyone.



I would agree with that. I believe that I am justified in my belief that the possibility of angiosperms exists noting that there is no actual evidence for them but there is evidence for plants. I also would note, we should even consider that the types of plants and seed bearing plants that we know to be angiosperms were most likely not the same as the ones we see today. So they would not even have to be what we see today that early and still be characterized in the same way we characterize angiosperms today.


Posts that are following are on the other post.

Click to expand...

What if you seek and don't find?

Click to expand...

Oncedeceived said:

Yes, by not being with God you are against Him and are subject to Satan.



1. Yes. 2. Yes, the generation that "sees" all these signs which is our generation.


Three of the disciples wrote about this and only one had a break in the passage. That tells me that it belongs together.


That makes no sense. Why would it matter if He never talked about another imminent event in a short time span? Why would He?



I didin't say that Jesus couldn't be wrong. He said that He didn't know the time He would return, so being wrong would be due to His lack of the timing of this event. It makes more sense because of the necessary elements to His coming. You have to understand Daniel's prophecy and how it all comes together other than just this passage.

• Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son"

Did God foreknow you? IF God foreknew you and we know He did if He knows everything then He predestined you and every person ever born to be conformed to the image of His Son. Free will comes in by choice. It is your choice to go in the path that God destined you for or for you to take your own. We have passages that claim that God predestined certain people for certain purposes as well. However, that will not overrule man's own choice.




1. Yes.
2. Yes.
I believe that God took away Pharaoh's will at the moment for His own purposes. It however, did not alter his destiny of his eternal choice. God did not punish Pharaoh for the moment that God hardened his heart, he was punished for his own free will choices.



I really don't know. I think that when evil rises to the extent that there is no hope for man to choose to repent and their are children who are trapped in this evil that God feels mercy for them is better than free will.



See above.



Scripture says He is good, my experience says He is good. There are even within our limited human experience where something may appear to be immoral but be good and moral just the same. I believe I am justified in believing that if God is good as I have experienced and others in the Bible even have experienced and HE is truly Just and omniscient then it must be good. If I can think that there is a good and moral reason with only my limited human ability then I am justified to believe that there is a good and moral reason. That moral reason for instance, the survival of all mankind in the future. If all mankind would be eliminated if this action was not taken then the good far outweighs the bad actions that were necessary to insure mankind's future.


Yes. Hell is the separation from Good. There is no good in hell.

I believe that everyone is called but we are free to accept or reject.


So without observing A and not A this law would not exist? How if we were not here to observe A and Not A would it cease to be valid?


Faith is the only way in science to establish whether or not our beliefs do comport with reality or whether they comport better with reality than another belief. Science is based on the fact that we have faith that the universe is orderly and can be comprehended in a correct way, that tomorrow will be the same as today and yesterday. Science can only make sense if our minds are reliable and can comprehend the universe. The Bible only makes those claims and reality confirms it. Theism is a better explanation for why the universe is orderly and can be comprehended by human beings made in the image of God Himself.


So you agree that you being an atheist makes them incorrect? If not, what makes you think they are incorrect?


All Christian denominations to be Christian believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and rose again. All Christian denominations do believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and rose again.


The whole Bible supports this claim. WE don't become sinless we become able to not sin. We after Christ paid for our sins here on earth are free from the debt of sin and no longer are bound by it or have a desire for it. Christ gives us by accepting His payment in full the ability to desire not to sin.


In some cases yes.



You haven't shown that God doesn't call everyone.



I would agree with that. I believe that I am justified in my belief that the possibility of angiosperms exists noting that there is no actual evidence for them but there is evidence for plants. I also would note, we should even consider that the types of plants and seed bearing plants that we know to be angiosperms were most likely not the same as the ones we see today. So they would not even have to be what we see today that early and still be characterized in the same way we characterize angiosperms today.


Posts that are following are on the other post.

Click to expand...

Atheos canadensis said:

Alright, I guess you've decided to stop participating entirely here. Very well. In case you ever come back, I will summarise the state of the discussion here.

1. You concede that the Genesis account of creation does not fit with the scientific data in relation to plants

2. You have not explained why "all living things with which the water teems" shouldn't be taken to mean all living things in the water at the time the author was writing. You have merely reiterated that you think your interpretation is right because otherwise Genesis doesn't fit the evidence.
You've also not explained why Genesis refers to "great beasts" of the sea when the largest Cambrian animals were roughly human sized.

3. You have not supplied any scripture to support the claim that Genesis is a chronological record from the "beginning to the present time"

4. You have not scripturally supported the assertion that God cannot create a sinless being or even a being like himself should he desire it.

5. You haven't explained why, if reason-guided faith is a useful way of approaching truth, there are so many different religions and denominations that use reason-guided faith but disagree with one another.

6. You have not explained how denying a free will choice does not violate free will. In other words, you haven't answered this question: X requires Y. You remove Y. Can you still have X?

7. You haven't explained why God is willing to condemn the majority of his children to hell given that we have established through his actions that having his children choose to be with him is not the most important consideration.

8. You haven't addressed the point that Jesus made a prediction about the time of his Return in Luke 21 even though he said he didn't know the actual time.


As I said, this is just a summary. Here is the post you should be responding to if you ever come back.

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Oncedeceived said:

Sorry I will try to get back. I started another thread and ended up with 30 or so notifications each day and keeping up with that caused me to neglect our discussion.

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Atheos canadensis said:

Heh, I saw that. Quite the flurry of replies.

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Oncedeceived said:

Just reminds me how much I appreciate you and Athee.

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Atheos canadensis said:

I do what I can to be agreeable even when I disagree.

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nightflight said:

How many years does a person have to seek God before he/she can give up? What if a person prays, reads, converses, all that, but receives no answer?

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Oncedeceived said:

I agree. Demonstrate how knowledge is demonstrable.

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