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what if as an athiest or an agnostic you are wrong? if i am wrong it really isn't that big of a deal...if you are wrong it is a very big deal.
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what if you are wrong?
- Thread starter ahiggs
- Start date
ragarth
Well-Known Member
First off, if I am wrong then I'm wrong, it's something I accept. It's important to remember that Pascal's wager is both fallacious and intellectually dishonest. If I am wrong then the question becomes who's right? Hinduism, Shintoism, Raelienism, Islam, Christianity, Cannibalism, Voodoo, the Norse, the Greeks, Catholics, Buddhists, Mormons, Scientologists, or some other of countless religions? Frankly I'd like it to be the Raeliens, those guys rock.
2nd, what if I did decide to become a Christian due to pascal's wager, and let us assume that by some miracle of chance Christianity is indeed the One True Religion (tm). Would I still make it into heaven? I think not, I seriously doubt any god worth his tinsel is going to accept you just because you decide to believe in him out of playing russian roullette with your soul, so by using this argument to state why you're Christian, and if Christianity is indeed right, then you're condemning yourself to hell- that is unless god is a capricious entity interested only in blind obedience and not in the nature of the individual.
Now, if you're wrong, it is indeed a big deal- you could still be condemned to Hades, to live as a rat in your next life- or a slug if you're particularly vile. As stated above using pascal's wager means you'll probably be in hell even if you're right, and the effects that faith in an afterlife have here in the real world are horrible- It belittles the nature of life, you might be more likely to kill someone because you're sending them to judgement, not anhilating their existance and every action they may have. By reducing the value of life en masse (lots of people believing this) you forestall treatments for such things as life-extending or even death-eliminating medicines because it's less important. So faith has real-world consequences that are very damaging to us. I'd rather hedge my bets on improving this life, instead of hoping for a dice roll after it.
2nd, what if I did decide to become a Christian due to pascal's wager, and let us assume that by some miracle of chance Christianity is indeed the One True Religion (tm). Would I still make it into heaven? I think not, I seriously doubt any god worth his tinsel is going to accept you just because you decide to believe in him out of playing russian roullette with your soul, so by using this argument to state why you're Christian, and if Christianity is indeed right, then you're condemning yourself to hell- that is unless god is a capricious entity interested only in blind obedience and not in the nature of the individual.
Now, if you're wrong, it is indeed a big deal- you could still be condemned to Hades, to live as a rat in your next life- or a slug if you're particularly vile. As stated above using pascal's wager means you'll probably be in hell even if you're right, and the effects that faith in an afterlife have here in the real world are horrible- It belittles the nature of life, you might be more likely to kill someone because you're sending them to judgement, not anhilating their existance and every action they may have. By reducing the value of life en masse (lots of people believing this) you forestall treatments for such things as life-extending or even death-eliminating medicines because it's less important. So faith has real-world consequences that are very damaging to us. I'd rather hedge my bets on improving this life, instead of hoping for a dice roll after it.
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1. wrong forum
2. This is Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager is really weak.
3. As evidence of 2: What if the Hindus are right? Or the ancient greeks/aztecs/egyptians/romans/Nords? Scientologists? Mormons? Muslims? Jews? Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
edit: too slow
2. This is Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager is really weak.
3. As evidence of 2: What if the Hindus are right? Or the ancient greeks/aztecs/egyptians/romans/Nords? Scientologists? Mormons? Muslims? Jews? Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
edit: too slow
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Funny, I just responded to such a claim in the morality forum:
All throughout history people believed in gods. ALL those gods have been proven wrong. You are a Zeus-Atheists as much as the next person.
All those people wasted their lives believing in a god that we now realize is made up.
So yes, the Atheistic worldview that there is no god has most of History to back them up.
Every single religion thinks they've got it right. Guess how many religions there are in the whole world and have been? Those are your odds. Good luck.
- Ectezus
All throughout history people believed in gods. ALL those gods have been proven wrong. You are a Zeus-Atheists as much as the next person.
All those people wasted their lives believing in a god that we now realize is made up.
So yes, the Atheistic worldview that there is no god has most of History to back them up.
Every single religion thinks they've got it right. Guess how many religions there are in the whole world and have been? Those are your odds. Good luck.
- Ectezus
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Pwnzerfaust
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If you are wrong and there is no god all you wasted was the thousands of hours and dollars you put into the church. Well, no, you also, if you are a theocreologist, you wasted the chance to understand the world around you. lets see, what else...
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the chance that i may or may not be wrong is not why i believe in God. it was just a question. just wondering if you would be willing to accept that you could be
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Matthewj1985
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But you believe in the Christian God, what if you are wrong and the only right religion was Islam? You are just as screwed as we all are.
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true enough. that is why it pays to educate yourself, and know what you believe and why
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Pwnzerfaust
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If your god would torture someone for not being gullible, I think I'd rather not spend eternity with him, thanks.
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You can say "I've studied the subject" but that doesn't address the issue because if you were born in Iraq you would've done the same and be a Muslim. If born in India you would've been a Hindu.
It's a fact that religion is distributed Geographically and it makes no sense.
(Edit: Darn, Richard Dawkins' video beat me to it
)Ahiggs, please answer me this;
The god hypothesis has been around since the dawn of mankind. All throughout history literally thousand of gods have been made up that you and I don't believe in.
If 99.99% of the god hypothesis has been proven wrong, why do you think that 0.01%, the religion that you've happened to been brought up with, is the correct one?
- Ectezus
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F
FedererFan
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But you can never be certain you're right. Chances are, you're not. Just because you understand what you believe doesn't mean the other religions (or no religion) aren't right. If Islam is correct, you and I are pretty much in the same boat. I'd say Islam and Christianity have pretty much the same chances of being right and neither is so great that I'm gonna follow it. If I'm wrong I accept that I will suffer the consequences.
Just to echo what everyone else has said, I don't worry about being wrong because everyone is probably wrong. To borrow from Richard Dawkins, you're "atheistic" about a ton of religions, I just throw Christianity in there as well.
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Wiccan_Child
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Since I don't believe anything (regarding deities), how can I be wrong?
But let's say I did. Let's say I believe that they don't exist. If I'm wrong, then that means they do exist. Well, so what? How does their existence affect me in any way? I can't arbitrarily pick one to believe, since they're all still as unlikely as the other, and many of them punish non-believers for, well, non-believing.
Basically, Pascal's wager has long been refuted. Find new material.
But let's say I did. Let's say I believe that they don't exist. If I'm wrong, then that means they do exist. Well, so what? How does their existence affect me in any way? I can't arbitrarily pick one to believe, since they're all still as unlikely as the other, and many of them punish non-believers for, well, non-believing.
Basically, Pascal's wager has long been refuted. Find new material.
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N
Nathan45
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So, wait, what you're saying is.... I should read the bible, make 20 copies of it and give the 20 copies to 20 friends?
And if I don't I'll be tortured in the afterlife?
And if I don't I'll be tortured in the afterlife?
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
"... if i am wrong it really isn't that big of a deal..."
I´d say this is the problem why you even have to ask this question: you cannot imagine just how wrong you could be.
There have been some answers here regarding different deities... and they are correct in this idea. You could be wrong in a way that makes just your faith the thing that "God" hates the most and will punish the worst.
You don´t think so. You have studied your beliefs - as far as this is possible - and you think they are correct... and basically you hope that this will be enough.
It´s the same way for me and most atheists and agnostics: I did my best and can only hope that this is enough. If it isn´t enough for an existing deity... tough luck for me.
But as I also did study and ponder this topic to reach my currect conclusion, I also know that there is nothing that I can do to change my stance.
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Matthewj1985
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Yet another drive by poster who thought they had stumbled upon something profound only to realize that the pesky atheist had already thought of it. Some other classics such as "Evilution is FALSE, if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys!!!!".
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Matthewj1985
Well-Known Member
An objective look at all world religions will show you that Christianity is no more or less valid than any other. All most atheist ask is that you and your brethren educate yourselves.
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