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truthmonger89 said:Why do so many people think we need religion to accomplish such simple satisfying behavior?
Illuminatus said:There's no God?
Then I'm right, you're wrong.
However, we atheists get the short end of the stick. If we're right and you're wrong, then we don't get to gloat about it. If you're right, then you've got all eternity to mock us. There ain't no justice!
If there is no God, then wouldn't you regret that you had lived a good and moral life without ever knowing what the real source of your goodness was? If there is no God, then what makes you a good person? If there is no God, then wouldn't it bother you that the foundation for your entire life was essentially a lie? Wouldn't that bother you? Wouldn't you want to know if that were the case?
Considering how many other religions there are in the world which amount to nothing more than irrational superstitious nonsense, do you have the courage to be honest enough with yourself to consider the possibility that maybe Christianity is no different? If there is no God, no heaven, no reward waiting for you after you die, isn't it enough just to be kind, honest and good just for its own sake? Isn't the joy and satisfaction of simply being kind to others enough of a reward?
Firstly, I am not such a good person. I believe that my best friend from Israel who is not a Christian is more good than me. She has out of her natural motivation and interest worked in orphanages, and in teaching and helping new immigrants. She is studying to be a therapist and has this natural sensitivity to people and their needs. She was the courageous girl to tell all her friends that she believed Arabs were human beings like she is one. (A truism that some people over there forget)Why do so many people think we need religion to accomplish such simple satisfying behaviour?
Multi-Elis said:
For the first paragraph, I would be curious to find out. But it's hard for me to imagine alternatives, and how I would react to them. If there was no God and everything just happened by chance, I would say that seeing how much suffering there is in the world, and how helpful an act of love is despite it all, I would consider acts of love to be a high goal worth spending one's life to attain. With out a God, I don't know what makes a person good. I don't think being good is limited to those who believe in God, and I think it's a thing that goes beyond the acts. As for the foundation of my life, again, I find it hard to imagine what other foundations there are, and how I would react to them. If I were an atheist, and I were an honest philosophical one who believed that we must overcome evil with good, it still wouldn't change anything. But that is the thing - I don't know if I would be a good enough person to be the type of atheist I described. What I say now, I say as a person who has been influenced by my belief in God.
I do have the courage to look at other religions and think that maybe Christianity is no different. Perhaps that is why I am a so called "liberal Christian". The problem is that I am caught up with two fashionable ideas with liberal Christians: 1) People who follow what Jesus said without ever having heard of Him or knowing him could be just as much "saved" (see the parable of the separation of the sheep and goats) 2) Many myths and religions seem to reflect some of the same ideas in Christianity and Judaism: the idea of a God who becomes incarnated as a human and then dies or is killed and then comes back to life.
I think that when I reject a religion or a system of beliefs I tend to do it based on things like morally allowing for things like the murder of people, or a moral code that is based appearances and not on inner morality.
I think it is right to just be kind, honest and good just for its own sake. I have given up doing things for a reward in heaven, mostly because I know how poor I am there anyway. Also because I don't know how wonderful the reward will be, and because motivating myself with rewards never seemed to motivate me enough (and would tarnish the kindness anyway,) I'd rather consider it a reward if I do get to one of those rare instances of real kindness. Actually there is always a certain joy when you do the right thing for the right reasons.
Firstly, I am not such a good person. I believe that my best friend from Israel who is not a Christian is more good than me. She has out of her natural motivation and interest worked in orphanages, and in teaching and helping new immigrants. She is studying to be a therapist and has this natural sensitivity to people and their needs. She was the courageous girl to tell all her friends that she believed Arabs were human beings like she is one. (A truism that some people over there forget)
So any way, I am not such a good person, I need help, I need something beyond what I can give myself. I am a lazy selfish person, which hinders me form being kind and doing acts of love.
But more importantly, here is where my understanding diverges from yours:
I read a book about people who died for a few moments or hours and then came back to life. The book gave examples of people from many religions as well as atheists going to an after life. When these people die, they go through stages, and the amount they die gets them to different stages. Those who die enough meet Christ. (Some go to some sort of hell, but get out of it when they call on Jesus he intervenes). Others only go through what is known as the tunnel experience, or someother stage. According to the testimonies, Christ is this being of light, that does nothing but love you and accept you. He never judges you. It is you who judge yourself because you wish you were as good and as loving as Christ. You said reward? The reward is having done a good deed, good from your heart good for no other reason than goodness. This seems to bring incredible joy to Christ. When you hear testimony after testimony like this, you no longer want to be a victim of superstitions, do's and don'ts, of hell and heaven sermons, of calculating rewards or anything like that. You just feel that this is the person you want to know, be like, and learn from. If you love being good and kind for goodness's sake, you've found a friend who agrees with you, and approves of the way you see things. Reading these testimonies has only re-enforced in me the belief that God is there and that Jesus is there, it has given me great joy see what this life and the next are really all about, and to see how it all falls in line. Even if I am wrong about all this, I still can't see how I would regret anything. You want to be good for it's own sake. I need help to be good for it's own sake and believe I have found a friend who will help me find the way and the maturity to be good. So neither of us will have anything to regret, either way, God or no God.
Macano said:If there was no God, my life would have been very different. I would have lived it out in a very selfish and sinful manner, living for only the moment, and not caring one iota about what others suffered due to it. Really, it's only because of God that I don't live that way now.
It is in our nature to sin, afterall.
Believing there is a God, and believing in biblical tenets, I restrain from doing much of what I would if I did not know Him. He does change us.
In a way, this question is similar to asking one who believes in no afterlife how they would live if there were no laws, not a single one. Just yesterday, one of my coworkers told me if not for laws, he'd be a serial rapist
Rocky582 said:To be able to call yourself a Christian, you must all be bias and know that God is God and God is there and have experience god's Glory. But just hypothetically, if at the end of your life, there is no God (assuming that is there's still another after life by no god), beside from being depress to the fact that you've believe and have hope in something that didn't does not exist, will you regret dedicating your life to Christianity? Why and why not?
This thread if for Christian to reply and for non-Christian to read. Thx
lovechild05 said:Someone was once talking to a non-believer after they were arguing about the existence of 'God', and he said: "My friend, if I die and find out that there is no God... I have nothing to lose. But if you die and, having not believed, and find out that there is a God, you'll be in dep trouble.
Macano said:Just yesterday, one of my coworkers told me if not for laws, he'd be a serial rapist
"Not all who cry "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but rather those who do the will of my father in heavan." -- Mathiew 7:21. You were over simplifying, and that is what makes the difference.So both of us could live the same kind of life, being good just for the sake of being good and simply being kind to others, we would both be good moral people, yet the doctrine of Christianity says that I should burn in hell and you should go to eternal paradise. Hmmm... something doesn't add up here. What exactly did I do wrong? Apparently the only real crime is not believing that Christianity is true, regardless of what kind of life one leads. Such ridiculously unfair justice only serves to highlight the moral bankruptcy of Christianity, making it that much harder for someone to believe it in the first place.
Evee said:If there was no God and I died I would have no regrets in believing.
Believing in God has only brought me joy so nothing lost.
If I die and there is no God, I will be dead and that is that.
No, because what one has learned/gained, has helped helped me greatly throughout my life.Rocky582 said:To be able to call yourself a Christian, you must all be bias and know that God is God and God is there and have experience god's Glory. But just hypothetically, if at the end of your life, there is no God (assuming that is there's still another after life by no god), beside from being depress to the fact that you've believe and have hope in something that didn't does not exist, will you regret dedicating your life to Christianity? Why and why not?
This thread if for Christian to reply and for non-Christian to read. Thx
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