What If Everyone Did It?

John Helpher said:

When you stand before Jesus, and he asks what you did to obey his teachings, will you argue that I didn't do enough?

Click to expand...

No. What will your answer be when he asks you the same question?

John Helpher said:

This is another one of those weird grammar things which I believe is an irrational outburst, akin to a cry for help. Why would you put for money in parenthesis? Why wouldn't you just say, "You can serve God by working for money"?

Click to expand...

The parens are there because I'm not sure to which you really object ... the working ... or working specifically for money.

You've already admitted that men must work to do God's will ... albeit in a more communistic system.

And money is, at it's essence, simply a way that facilitates the exchange of goods and services.

Is it wrong to chase after money ... yes.

Is it wrong to work for money with which to support yourself and your family ... no, because the scriptures command us to provide for our families ... and to make provision for the support of the ministry ... and with which to bless our neighbor.

What do you think made up the collections that Paul took up to aid the struggling churches in Asia Minor ? How do you think that the donors obtained those funds ?

Worldwide socialism is greatly desired among the liberal humanist atheist population. This seems like the video could be an attempt to Christianize it. The Great Reset. The One World Order. Look up "Jesus was a socialist".

John Helpher said:

This is another one of those weird grammar things which I believe is an irrational outburst, akin to a cry for help. Why would you put for money in parenthesis? Why wouldn't you just say, "You can serve God by working for money"?

It's like you're protesting your own statement. I believe this is evidence that, deep down, you know how ludicrous is it to suggest that we serve God by chasing after money. I feel genuinely at a loss as to how to rebut, because this is your fight. Good luck.

Click to expand...

I would relate hearing God as chasing after his power but would also attribute the power to chase of him doing the work of strengthening us so we can do His good pleasure. Again we should rejoice that we can hear His understanding knowing he gives the power to come to him making our hearts soft .

He does all the work required of he does nothing.

Some like Jonas murmured having to be dragged to do the good pleasure of God .We should try and follow the example Jesus the chief apostle the Son of man not according to his will but the will of the unseen father .

Better things accompany salvation. . . actual salvation (not a kick start in that way God will not forget the good works we offer towards his name or power to show he is the Creator

John Helpher said:

When you stand before Jesus, and he asks what you did to obey his teachings, will you argue that I didn't do enough?

Click to expand...

I would think if it is Almighty God working in anyone to both will and empower a person to perform his good pleasure it would be just right.

If he began the good work in us he will finish it.

Philiapians1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

No power is attributed to the flesh. We have that power as our confidence.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

David had the same confidence that worked in him that works in us today .if we had even one un-redeemed inequity in our heart who could stand in His Holy presence?

Psalm 130:3-5 King James Version (KJV If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.

mikeforjesus said:

I have listened and I would like to follow but I would like to be convinced such a way of life would not affect anyone negatively as someone mentioned people need to look after their own as someone mentioned when Paul said to look after widows. How can we ensure there are enough people willing to treat all for free ? So it seems you need money

How can one gain skills if he does not have money to join places which teach? Is it wrong to work for money if you do not focus on storing it up for yourself ?

The bible explains we should not trust in riches to get us through hard time’s

but if you don’t save how can you ensure you store enough to be able to use money to gain other skills ?
Or to be able to multiply riches to give more to others ?

but if the future will be no one can be treated except by voluntary doctors and God can support people then can He not support people now ?

Click to expand...

perhaps we have to follow and just trust God to lead us but does that mean you think God will not find work to people who seek Him if they seek first the kingdom He will give a job for them to supply their needs? I suppose He does call us to leave any job if we chose it just for wealth to share all wealth and just do work if He calls us to work just to help others and keep some money just for your daily needs your daily bread

I watched this video called
Ask seek knock from voice in desert group


This video in link above shows how we must forsake everything to follow Him I agree with speaker except I don’t like how he just judges people without showing concern I don’t know intentions of person or know if they are right to judge anyone who may have been a follower or repented I believe he speaks the truth you have to leave everything to follow Him but Jesus also called us to be fishers of men not to judge so if he wants to just slander or judge and say they are false and they are going to hell to say they can not be saved as they did not follow before then I do not believe he is speaking the truth but for us who are alive we have to leave everything as bible says we must hate our life to gain it to forsake all that we have to find life as we may not have opportunity to repent later but you could die at any time if you are not seeking to repent to do what you are able to if you die while you are not seeking to repent you can’t be saved one has to be seeking to repent but God can come at any time if one continually chooses not to seek to repent

John Helpher said:

Hi all. This post is inspired by some exchanges I had on a different thread about literally obeying the teachings of Jesus in the areas of materialism, helping the poor, working for money, and going into all the world preaching the gospel.

My understanding is that Jesus calls all Christians to obey these teachings quite literally, much in the same way he and his own disciples, (and then thousands of Christians in the book of Acts) did.

There was some feedback expressing some doubt as to whether this was practical or even feasible. What would happen if everyone stopped working for money? What would happen if everyone forsook their possessions and started sharing all things in common? Would the world break down into chaos?

I think the opposite is true; I think we would be practicing Heaven on Earth, just as Jesus said we should pray for in the Lord's prayer (i.e. "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven").

So, for anyone who has similar questions as to how it could possibly work and what it might look like and whether this really is what God wants, I found this video to be helpful. The narrator presents 2 different approaches to the "what if" question; grumpy and enthusiastic.

I personally tend toward the grumpy explanation (sorry everyone; I'm trying to work on that!) but I was very much encouraged by the enthusiastic explanation which I find difficult to articulate in my own words sometimes, but it is essentially that God wants everyone to work for love. He wants us to use our time, our skills, and our resources to pursue goodness for its own sake rather than using our time and skills to chase after money because we're afraid we'll die if we don't. When you compare the two scenarios, one is infinitely more depressing!

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what people think. Since I've already posted a thread specifically dealing with what the actual teachings are, I would like for people to focus mostly on the concept of what if. For a moment, set aside whatever various cynical points of view you may have about this all being a fantasy or just for someone else and share how it could possibly work if we really tried. What would it look like if every Christian helped one another just because we wanted to, and not for payment?

Click to expand...

You know, I struggled with this for a looooong time. Until finally discovering that God has a unique purpose for each one of us. And the only way to ever finding this is by following the lead of the Spirit. One has to invite Him to lead and guide us. Otherwise we end up like those folks who did what they thought God wanted, but flat out ignored the Holy Spirit, where the Lord tells them to depart from Him, and that He never knew them.

John Helpher said:

Hi all. This post is inspired by some exchanges I had on a different thread about literally obeying the teachings of Jesus in the areas of materialism, helping the poor, working for money, and going into all the world preaching the gospel.

My understanding is that Jesus calls all Christians to obey these teachings quite literally, much in the same way he and his own disciples, (and then thousands of Christians in the book of Acts) did.

Click to expand...

What "teachings," exactly? And in what way, precisely, did the first Christians obey these teachings?

John Helpher said:

There was some feedback expressing some doubt as to whether this was practical or even feasible. What would happen if everyone stopped working for money? What would happen if everyone forsook their possessions and started sharing all things in common? Would the world break down into chaos?

Click to expand...

Sometimes, in order to show the faultiness of a viewpoint, it is helpful to take it to an extreme. Doing so often brings to the surface the faultiness of the viewpoint. Philosophers call this "argumentum ad absurdum." What you describe by your questions is a kind of radical communalism that the "What if?" question exposes as unworkable practically. To respond to this obvious unworkability the "What if?" question draws out by simply dismissing the "What if?" question as uselessly hypothetical is lazy reasoning, a careless deflection of a serious flaw.

John Helpher said:

I think the opposite is true; I think we would be practicing Heaven on Earth, just as Jesus said we should pray for in the Lord's prayer (i.e. "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven").

Click to expand...

How so? Who would grow the food we all would need to eat? Who would make the clothes we would wear? Who would deal with sanitation issues, or housing, or education? Who would man the factories producing cars, and computers, and building materials?

John Helpher said:

So, for anyone who has similar questions as to how it could possibly work and what it might look like and whether this really is what God wants, I found this video to be helpful. The narrator presents 2 different approaches to the "what if" question; grumpy and enthusiastic.

Click to expand...

I watched the first 8 minutes or so of the video but found it so full of faulty reasoning, I couldn't bring myself to watch more.

John Helpher said:

I was very much encouraged by the enthusiastic explanation which I find difficult to articulate in my own words sometimes, but it is essentially that God wants everyone to work for love. He wants us to use our time, our skills, and our resources to pursue goodness for its own sake rather than using our time and skills to chase after money because we're afraid we'll die if we don't.

Click to expand...

I understand there may be a problem in translation between what the video actually said and your distillation of it here, but God does NOT want "everyone to work for love." He wants us all to know Him, to love Him, to enjoy Him, and to live to His glory. In this order. Perhaps when you say "love," you mean God who is love, but this is a clarification very much worth making, given how murky the whole love issue has become within the modern Church.

Pursuing goodness for its own sake is called Moralism, which is the seedbed of religious Legalism. We are good in order to know and enjoy God, not merely to be good. He is the Highest Good, after all, not mere moral living.

John Helpher said:

share how it could possibly work if we really tried. What would it look like if every Christian helped one another just because we wanted to, and not for payment?

Click to expand...

I don't know what it would look like if every person claiming to be a Christian loved as God calls them to. But I certainly know what it looks like when some do: self-sacrifice, peace, joy, unity, community, holiness, and the constant lifting up of Christ to the glory of God the Father.

I know very few believers who "help one another for payment." And nearly all of those who receive payment for their work for the local church community do so under the biblical command to "not muzzle the ox that tramples out the corn." The Elders of a church who serve it full-time are worthy of "double honor," deserving material support of their efforts. There are always money-grubbers, religious profiteers, who make merchandise of the foolish within the Church and we ought to reject them, but there are many others who are quite properly remunerated for the dedication of their lives full-time to the service of the Church.