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Becasue the serpent was part of the plan.Agree! We're not Plan B. God knew all along from beginning to end. Funny how God purposely pointed out the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, like a Wet Paint sign, "and don't touch THAT one"...then purposely allowed the Serpent into the perfect garden of Eden? Really Lord? Heh
It doesn't say that...you missed what it was actually saying.
Job 5:7 Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
These are known as "givens" or facts. Sparks of a fire indeed do fly upward so he compares that a man will experience trouble or hardship in life as another fact of life. What is not being said is a child is born and sparks suddenly appear out of no where.
What about this?
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said,
“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also
from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
I think an interesting "what if" question would be "what if Adam and Eve never ate from the tree of Knowledge but also never ate from the tree of life?"
This messed up world is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).Humankind "fulfilling the earthly objective" ???
That's news to me. Tell us more about this . Thanks.
- Steve
Isn't that inconsistent with this Psalm considering he is passionately referring to his own sin and then to throw in an accusation about his mother's sin? No it's only consistent if he's talking about his own failings.No, he said his mom committed a sin in order to get pregnant.
whatever sin his mother committed to conceive him....adultery? wife of Jesse? Queen Mother of King David? Whatever sin it was how did that particular sin shape David?Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Seems like a very inconsistent an odd insertion to this Psalm about one's own transgressions.Second, he does not say he had someone else's sin when he was born. He is accusing his mother of committing sin to conceive him and he alone is thus "shapen in iniquity".
Understood as a person being formed in the womb it's reasonable to conclude that the condition is universal.This is what David wrote but somehow people tend to see something else which is not there: Behold, humanity was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did mothers conceive us.
You make a great point here. The change in state of being is profound. Her body is now obedient to the law of death. Survival because it dies. Her free will is severely reduced by disordered passions. Now her body moves involuntarily for survival needs. Urges to reproduce never experienced before. Fears of death never felt before. The powers of the senses cloud her ability to reason. To Adam she would seem much more like an animal.If Eve was the only one responsible for sinning in the garden of Eden, I'd imagine she would be the only one who felt nakedness before God.
Yes, that's a curious thing. Thanks.Well, does one need to partake of the tree of life again and again to sustain physical life or is one bite enough?
It was in the garden for a reason, and Adam and Eve were told by God they could "freely eat" from it.. so, apparently, even in their perfect sinless state they needed access to the tree of life in order to live forever...
I think an interesting "what if" question would be "what if Adam and Eve never ate from the tree of Knowledge but also never ate from the tree of life?"
Would they have physically died in a sinless state? We know that is possible for Christ did just that.
I see.This messed up world is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).
God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.
If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.
Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.
God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus we become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).
What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time:
There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), the big inability for us is create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)
This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or even deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).
An unselfish God would be doing all He can to help willing individuals to make that free will decision to accept His Love. Again, since God will not be forcing these individuals, they have to be willing (it is their choice) and God cannot “make” them willing since that is robotic action. God can only at best make them free will agent (like God is) and capable of make the right decision without the selection being worthy of anything (it is a gift of pure charity).
This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.
Let me just give you an example of How God works to help willing individuals.
All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).
To obtain Godly type Love through forgiveness also requires the person to sin and this seems to be the only way to obtain Godly type Love.
One thing the Tree of life in the garden tells us is that there bodies though immortal were passible. Meaning they could die. They needed fuel, so it follows they could run out.It could be that everything that bared fruit was considered the Tree of Life because they were in that state of sinless dependence upon the Lord. If they ate from the tree of life it would have been business as usual. I don't think partaking of the Tree of Life after eating forbidden fruit would have necessarily improved their lot, but it may have kept them in the state of permanent exile.
Question: What would have happened if Adam
had refused to eat the forbidden fruit?
Assuming that Eve ate it and transgressed the command of God, but Adam did not.
Would she have been saved by Adam's obedience? Would humankind have been in a
fallen state as a consequence of her sin alone? Furthermore, if Adam had eaten from
the Tree of Life instead, how would that have further affected the situation.
One thing the Tree of life in the garden tells us is that there bodies though immortal were passible. Meaning they could die. They needed fuel, so it follows they could run out.
I think it's possible that Jesus as the second Adam ate from the tree of life when He was on earth..
Revelation 22 the tree of life is mentioned.
John 3:16How do you define Godly type Love?
Would canal love do such a thing for those who murdered the son?John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
I'm guessing you meant "carnal"? (fleshly) ???Would canal love do such a thing for those who murdered the son?
Is that a kind of love you grow into or is it totally illogical?
All organizations and institutions have a good easy to remember "Mission Statement" and I think God provide one for us as a command "Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy." Duet. 6:5 and lots of other places. The problem is that degree of Love is way beyond man's ability, so man first must obtain it.I'm guessing you meant "carnal"? (fleshly) ???
I'm not sure where you are going with all these questions.
Do you have a point to make?
I really wanted some scriptural confirmation of your
"humankind fulfilling the earthly objective" idea.
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