What I don't like about the sacrifice of Christ

Yes, God knew Christ would rise.
But before He did, He was cut off from God and descended to hell.
The eternal, unbroken unity was broken when God turned away from Jesus on the cross, because of the sin He bore for me.
Jesus' cry "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" is the real sacrifice of the cross.
And I praise Him for it every day, because only through it can i come to God!

Jesus went through a real, and horrible death. That he would rise again doesn't change that.

It is true that he, just like christians, knew it wasn't the ultimate end. But that doesn't mean it wasn't horrible or wasn't significant or even that it wasn't real death.

Marv

The problem is that you're using an improper definition of "sacrifice".

Since a sacrifice usually involves giving something up, people look at that aspect as THE defining aspect.

But the true defining aspect of "sacrifice" (in the Biblical sense) is that it's a "payment for sin". That is the purpose of a sacrifice - it is an atonement for sin. And that is how Jesus was a sacrifice.

Reptoid said:

Christians seem to act so sad that Christ was nailed to a cross and that losing Christ had to somehow be a great loss or tragedy to God, but was it? Sacrifice involves truly losing something, but God didn't lose anything when he sacrificed Christ. Of course, I understand the symbolism of the crucifixion, of a good and pure entity being slaughtered to redeem the evil, but in reality, no true sacrifice took place even if God actually exists and Jesus hanged on the cross. God knew he would not lose Christ, that Christ would just be going up to Heaven. And if Christ was just God in flesh, God knew he wouldn't die, so how is that a sacrifice?

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Hey again Rep. I wonder if you feel that you're making any forward progress with the answers you get.




1. Yep, Jesus did die so you could be forgiven for ALL of your sins and rebellion! WOW!!

2. GOD SURELY DOES EXIST! Why would you think otherwise? (Proof is easy - do you want me to write it?)

Best wishes!


- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

I think Criada nailed most of it, but I have a few things to add.

Try this angle: Jesus is God. Ever since creation, he had been sitting in Heaven, enthroned in glory, receiving the due worship of his creations. He is the King of Glory, perfectly good and holy.

Now, his subjects become real jerks. Because Jesus/God is completely holy, any deviation from him must be toward evil, so justice demands that the jerk subjects be dealt with. This is treason, so death or banishment would be the proper punishments. However, this is not what happened.

Instead, said Good King gets up off throne, takes form of Jerk Subjects, and comes to Earth in a glorious Virgin Birth to...Joe and Jane Nobody in the Middle of Nowhere. Besides that, he has to sleep in a feeding trough and I'm dead sure he didn't get out of there without some dumb animal drooling on him.

The Good King spends his entire life(30 + years) dealing with lowly human problems, suffering hunger, thirst, heat, cold and really bad sleeping conditions. Not to mention he lives in the backwater territory of the Roman Empire(not the nicest bunch of guys) and surely saw and felt his own fair share of injustices.

Finally, at around age 30, he begins to reveal the truth to his backward subjects, and what's his thanks? They nail him to a block of wood. To which he willingly goes.

The Cross is the greatest sacrifice of all time, not only for the pain involved there, but because of the fact that God came down to fix our mess when he didn't have to. In doing so, he endured everything we have to go through and more. He stepped down from all the pomp and glory he rightfully deserves for the sole purpose of rescuing a bunch of ungrateful wretches that didn't deserve it and really deserved to get pummeled in the worst way.

That's the sacrifice. It's the sacrifice that only the greatest Father would make for his children. It was a sacrifice of love.

"Pain of death" doen't even begin to describe the torture Jesus went through......

It was to show us the sacrifice, and plus he defeated death by his Resurrection. It showed us his power to do this. We no longer have to fear death.

I think you have a good point Reptoid, because we all die, and many people suffer gruesome extended torture.

ut the true defining aspect of "sacrifice" (in the Biblical sense) is that it's a "payment for sin". That is the purpose of a sacrifice - it is an atonement for sin. And that is how Jesus was a sacrifice.

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The ceremonial atoning sacrifices weren't about suffering either. Lambs died all the time. Life was taken for meat even when there weren't sacrifices.

More people can add to this, but just a couple observations -- sacrificial lambs were originally supposed to come from one's own flock (later bought in the temple), which meant people probably got attached to them. They had to be pure and spotless, which meant that it was not a careless or random decision.

There was a ceremonial respect attached to it, a motion of heart and declaration of intent. Sacrificial giving was not the-more-gruesome-the-better. It was an act of repentance and generosity. Depending on the sacrifice or offering, it was often shared by the priests, their family, or the owner ... and some offerings were shared in community feasts.

Instructions for sin offerings:
http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=e...25205&new=1&nb=le&ng=5&nnc=%A0%3E%3E%A0&ncc=5

Christians seem to act so sad that Christ was nailed to a cross and that losing Christ had to somehow be a great loss or tragedy to God, but was it?

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Yes - that it had to be done to begin with and the sadness is the realization that an innocent had to die because of our sin. That He had to take our place and the full realization that we deserve ourselves because we are blemished and not innocent because of our sin.

What did Christ suffer? The application of our sin and His seperation from the Father when our sin was being laid upon Him - the anguish and suffering that we each know because of our sins - imagine a world of it at once being laid on you thats quite a large amount but then still being left knowing that many will reject it anyway and will be lost even though you have offered yourself to the world.

Think of the sacrifice of Christ as not "somebody giving something up" kind of sacrifice, but as a step in the process of obtaining our salvation. Christ's blood had to be shed in order for us to be forgiven. And that's that. We are very greatful for our salvation (no matter how much it cost or didn't cost God.)

The reason we act sad is because we are meditating on what Christ did for us. That GOD, very powerful, and glorious, who had all the riches, became humble and came to this earth and was willing to suffer along with us, and let his creaton kill Him. I mean can you think of any king doing that for his subjects? And that God didn't just erase all the humans and created new ones, but actually redemeed the "bad" ones?


The other thing, when you think of a sacrifice that God did by sending his son to us...Imagine a king who sends his favorite son out into the world and knows that his subjects will mistreat him and in the end kill him. And also God had to turn away from his own son at the moment when He was on the cross bearing all our sins, (when Jesus said: My God, why have you foresaken me?) Even for a moment, the tragedy of their separation was very great.

Why did Jesus cry when He saw people crying over Lazarus, even though He knew he would resurrect him in the next moment? I think it was because He was feeling their distress (even if it's for the moment). Why we cry when we see a movie that we saw a 100 times and know it will end well? Because we feel the pain of the moment.

Imagine a king who sends his favorite son out into the world and knows that his subjects will mistreat him and in the end kill him.

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And the Son knew that the suffering and rejection would come... He made the choice to face it with determination. Jesus warned His disciples at the Last Supper.

Lu 22:19
And He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

Dear Reptoid. I really enjoyed reading your replies, and I agree wholeheartedly. May I round it up, by saying, Yes, it is hard to believe that God, the Almighty and Omnipotent Creator of Heaven and Earth, loves us so very much, that He came to be born as one of us, lived like all men do, suffered like men do, and paid with His Life and Blood, for our Redemption. We are free now, to approach our Maker, and live all eternity with Him and with our Christian brothers and sisters. Jesus told to repent, to exchange our selfish and wilful natures, into selflessly loving and caring ones. Jesus is waiting to lead us back to our original home, and in the meantime, He is pleading and intercessing for us. Without His Sacrifice, we had no hope to look forward to eternal Love, Joy and Peace. I say this humbly and lovingly, Reptoid, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.