GreenPartyVoter
Secrecy and Accountability Cannot Co-Exist
- Feb 4, 2004
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Her pastor pointed his finger at me and yelled (to the entire congregation), "THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THAT MAN!" I looked at him and yelled back, "The Holy Spirit did convict me —and that's why I'm walking out!" And then I walked out and drove home.
I just have a couple of quick questions.
Do you all feel that everyone who believes homosexual behavior/lifestyle to be sinful must be homophobic? Further to that, do you believe that we all treat gay people the way the examples in the OP did?
I only ask because the OP, and many of the responses *seem* to imply this, but I am cannot tell for sure and don't want to jump to conclusions. Just looking for clarification. Thanks.
Thank you, Uber, but I should state that I'm not homosexual, though I know a great many lovely people who are, a dear cousin of mine being one. Just witnessing what he went through, as well as hearing and/or reading about literal horror stories such as your own made me really question what I had walked into spiritually. As I said, I really just felt God calling me out of there after a time, and you're right to call it abuse, because even for me, I felt as though my better judgment was being suppressed, ignored, and abused by some of the things said at the pulpit, and circulated by other members of the church. I applaud you for what you did, Uber, and though I'm sure you already know this, I just want to say that I believe God loves you, and accepts you just as you are.I remember when I did that, QuakerOats. I was visiting my sister's church and someone alerted the minister that a queer was in the audience (moi) so the Scripture lessons were suddenly changed from what was listed in the bulletin to Romans 1:26-32 and 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
After going through that humiliation, the minister preached a sermon about how women were the source of evil in the world since Satan knew the way to Adam was through Eve, which was why Paul women are to be subservient to men in all things (??!!); and then he moved on to how AIDS is God's divine punishment on homosexuals for their filthy, degenerate lifestyles.
While sitting there, I thought, "I grew up going to a church where I was spiritually abused, and here I am, sitting being spiritually abused again and can I do better than that?" So I got up, put on my coat, and began walking out.
Her pastor pointed his finger at me and yelled (to the entire congregation), "THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THAT MAN!" I looked at him and yelled back, "The Holy Spirit did convict me and that's why I'm walking out!" And then I walked out and drove home.
Good for you, QO, for leaving a place that was spiritually abusing you! It's a huge leap for us when we do that!
Excellent points. Thank you.I only deconverted less than a year ago and I was much more "involved" in my faith than simply calling myself Christian. I was involved in youth groups, Bible studies, retreats, and went to a Christian college. For most of my life, the vast majority of my friends have been Christian, and usually on the conservative side.
I began coming out of the closet in high-school, and finished about half-way through college. All of my friends stuck by me, and I made plenty (for me) new ones when I was "out." Many of them believe that homosexuality is wrong. But we were and are friends, with varying political and theological beliefs, very different hobbies and study habits, beliefs concerning family and everything else, and differing opinions of sexuality. The friendships work because we recognize that we do not agree on some things (on a lot of things, in some cases), and we can work with that.
The word "homophobia" is overused by some gay people, and supporters.
The accusation that "homophobia" is being misused is also overused. A lot of people who are hateful towards homosexuals hide behind "Well, they shriek that at everybody" to disguise the fact that it is applicable in their case.
I can't believe people could be that cruel.I remember when I did that, QuakerOats. I was visiting my sister's church and someone alerted the minister that a queer was in the audience (moi) so the Scripture lessons were suddenly changed from what was listed in the bulletin to Romans 1:26-32 and 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
After going through that humiliation, the minister preached a sermon about how women were the source of evil in the world since Satan knew the way to Adam was through Eve, which was why Paul women are to be subservient to men in all things (??!!); and then he moved on to how AIDS is God's divine punishment on homosexuals for their filthy, degenerate lifestyles.
While sitting there, I thought, "I grew up going to a church where I was spiritually abused, and here I am, sitting being spiritually abused again and can I do better than that?" So I got up, put on my coat, and began walking out.
Her pastor pointed his finger at me and yelled (to the entire congregation), "THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THAT MAN!" I looked at him and yelled back, "The Holy Spirit did convict me and that's why I'm walking out!" And then I walked out and drove home.
Good for you, QO, for leaving a place that was spiritually abusing you! It's a huge leap for us when we do that!
You make a lot of assumptions here about a young man who was murdered. His murderers were convicted. Please do not blame the victim after his tragic demise by claiming he was partly responsible. No, he wasn't. He was murdered. The murderers are responsible for what they did.I never said nor believe he deserved that or there was justification in it.
But if I were killed because I was trick rolled over drugs I would truely feel that my own mother would be ashamed of the circumstances and that I would to some extent be responsible for my own demise. It would be called a scandal. No one deserves to be murdered, but be responsible and accountable for your safety folks, because their are some dangerous people out there.
Mathew Shepherd was killed because he sexaully assaulted one of those straight men while negotiating sex for drugs (prostitution). Let's get our facts straight.
It is the gay lifestyle, not homophobia responsible for these things. Sin has a cost to it.
Peace.
It's funny, because his name is Ba Friend, which I just noticed. Bar Friend is pretty funny though. I admit I used to read it mentally as Bar Fiend.Blaming the victim are we Barfriend? Not much of a merciful attitude, Eh?
Mathew Shepherd was killed because he sexaully assaulted one of those straight men while negotiating sex for drugs (prostitution). Let's get our facts straight.
It is the gay lifestyle, not homophobia responsible for these things. Sin has a cost to it.
Peace.
Shepard suffered a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He had severe brain stem damage, which affected his body's ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature and other vital signs. There were also about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate.
I'll be damned if I ever set foot in a church again.
If Heaven is devoid of gay souls, I will question whether I ended up in the right place or not.
I am the young woman who, after much discernment, got up out of the pew one Sunday, and walked out of church, and out of mainstream Christianity, due in large part to the rampant negative views concerning homosexuals, and homosexuality.
I'll tell you, I've never felt closer to God than I do now, and I believe it was he who finally called me out of there that Sunday.
Good thread, Domenico!
Her pastor pointed his finger at me and yelled (to the entire congregation), "THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THAT MAN!" I looked at him and yelled back, "The Holy Spirit did convict me and that's why I'm walking out!" And then I walked out and drove home!
It's funny, because his name is Ba Friend, which I just noticed. Bar Friend is pretty funny though. I admit I used to read it mentally as Bar Fiend.
"gay souls" What? You do remember what Jesus said about marriage in heaven, right? Sexual...orientation will not be an issue. Gay/Straight will have no meaning, I wonder, is this a bad thing to you all?
Me too. I remember thinking I had finally found a church that I had felt welcome in, and then literally crying when I heard what they were preaching one day, because I knew I could never agree to or promote what they were saying (nothing about gay people, actually this church was quite welcoming, it was more prosperity gospel stuff and how we should be converting other people).
I am very sorry this happened to you, UL. I too have left during services, not often and not for a long time now. But always when a line of some kind had just been drawn. Even when it did not apply to me, I left, because it felt as if it did. Either all are welcome at the Feast of the Lamb, or else I am not welcome.
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