What homophobia does

[Domenico]

Thank you for competely missing the point BA. The list I posted wasnt a list of crimes against homosexuals. It was about how homophobia affects people - homosexual and straight. The list never mentioned Matthew Shepherd. The point you mentioned could have described the death of one of the main characters in the short story "Brokeback Mountain."

My take on the case you presented about Joshua Brown is that he should spend the rest of his life in prison, the same as any killer. His acts were truly sickening. But I dont see anywhere in that story that he raped and murdered the boy simply because the boy was straight.

And I have a question for you - When a man gropes a womans breasts in a bar, is she entitled to beat him to death? After all, if he hadnt groped her, it could have been a very different story.

Feel free to reply in a PM, if you are worried about the forums rule on debating.

 

[BAFRIEND]

A young man was pistol-whipped and tied to a fence post to die.

Christ, have mercy

I never said nor believe he deserved that or there was justification in it.

But if I were killed because I was trick rolled over drugs I would truely feel that my own mother would be ashamed of the circumstances and that I would to some extent be responsible for my own demise. It would be called a scandal. No one deserves to be murdered, but be responsible and accountable for your safety folks, because their are some dangerous people out there.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Thank you for competely missing the point BA. The list I posted wasnt a list of crimes against homosexuals. It was about how homophobia affects people - homosexual and straight. The list never mentioned Matthew Shepherd. The point you mentioned could have described the death of one of the main characters in the short story "Brokeback Mountain."

My take on the case you presented about Joshua Brown is that he should spend the rest of his life in prison, the same as any killer. His acts were truly sickening. But I dont see anywhere in that story that he raped and murdered the boy simply because the boy was straight.

And I have a question for you - When a man gropes a womans breasts in a bar, is she entitled to beat him to death? After all, if he hadnt groped her, it could have been a very different story.

Feel free to reply in a PM, if you are worried about the forums rule on debating.

See post 22.

 

[CaDan]

I never said nor believe he deserved that or there was justification in it.

But if I were killed because I was trick rolled over drugs I would truely feel that my own mother would be ashamed of the circumstances and that I would to some extent be responsible for my own demise. It would be called a scandal. No one deserves to be murdered, but be responsible and accountable for your safety folks, because their are some dangerous people out there.

"God has showed me not to call any man unclean."

~ St. Peter

 

[BAFRIEND]

"God has showed me not to call any man unclean."

~ St. Peter

St Paul warned us about the sexually immoral.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I am off this thread because someone posted this in the Debates on Homsexuality Forum and I choose to discus it there.

 

[spinningtutu]

I saw this list posted a while back on a friend's blog. It literally made me cry.



I Am...

I am the boy who never finished high school, because I got called a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] everyday.

I am the girl kicked out of her home because I confided in my mother that I am a lesbian.

I am the prostitute working the streets because nobody will hire a transsexual woman.

I am the sister who holds her gay brother tight through the painful, tear-filled nights.

We are the parents who buried our daughter long before her time.

I am the man who died alone in the hospital because they would not let my partner of twenty-seven years into the room.

I am the foster child who wakes up with nightmares of being taken away from the two fathers who are the only loving family I have ever had. I wish they could adopt me.

I am not one of the lucky ones. I killed myself just weeks before graduating high school. It was simply too much to bear.

We are the couple who had the realtor hang up on us when she found out we wanted to rent a one-bedroom for two men.

I am the person who never knows which bathroom I should use if I want to avoid getting the management called on me.

I am the mother who is not allowed to even visit the children I bore, nursed, and raised. The court says I am an unfit mother because I now live with another woman.

I am the domestic-violence survivor who found the support system grow suddenly cold and distant when they found out my abusive partner is also a woman.

I am the domestic-violence survivor who has no support system to turn to because I am male.

I am the father who has never hugged his son because I grew up afraid to show affection to other men.

I am the home-economics teacher who always wanted to teach gym until someone told me that only lesbians do that.

I am the woman who died when the EMTs stopped treating me as soon as they realized I was transsexual. (yes, this actually happened)

I am the person who feels guilty because I think I could be a much better person if I didnt have to always deal with society hating me.

I am the boy tied to a fence, beaten to a bloody pulp and left to die because two straight men wanted to "teach me a lesson."

I am the woman who was raped to "make me straight again."

I am the man who stopped attending church, not because I don't believe, but because they closed their doors to my kind.

I am the person who has to hide what this world needs most, love.

Thank you for posting this! I can personally relate to most of them of them and in each of these if I don't hear myself - I hear the story of someone I've loved/cared about.

If you notice... in each scenario, the persecuted person is persecuted primarily for a failure to live up to her/his expected gender role. More than homophobia, it is sexism and the norm of anti-femininity.

Thanks again for posting this.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

There is much work to be done... and hopefully much repentance of these atrocities.

 

[TheManeki]

Some of you probably already read Slacktivist (I know CaDan does). For those who don't, here's an interesting post:

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2007/12/charlies-angels.html

In a nutshell, Project Angel Tree is a ministry that collects Christmas presents to give them to the children of prisoners. They recently sent a letter to the Friends Congregational Church saying that they will no longer accept donations from the church, even though they have for the past 10 years. Why? Friends Congregational Church is open and affirming.

So we have some collateral damage caused by homophobia -- some of the children that would be helped by Project Angel Tree will be missing out, because the organization won't accept FCC's donations. Sad.

 

[CaDan]

Some of you probably already read Slacktivist (I know CaDan does). For those who don't, here's an interesting post:

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2007/12/charlies-angels.html

In a nutshell, Project Angel Tree is a ministry that collects Christmas presents to give them to the children of prisoners. They recently sent a letter to the Friends Congregational Church saying that they will no longer accept donations from the church, even though they have for the past 10 years. Why? Friends Congregational Church is open and affirming.

So we have some collateral damage caused by homophobia -- some of the children that would be helped by Project Angel Tree will be missing out, because the organization won't accept FCC's donations. Sad.

Lord, I am not worthy to receive you; but say the word and I shall be healed.

Christ have mercy.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Unbelievable.

 

[Valkyrie07]

If only things were better....


All we can do, is carry on fighting for tolerance.

 

[desmalia]

I just have a couple of quick questions.

Do you all feel that everyone who believes homosexual behavior/lifestyle to be sinful must be homophobic? Further to that, do you believe that we all treat gay people the way the examples in the OP did?

I only ask because the OP, and many of the responses *seem* to imply this, but I am cannot tell for sure and don't want to jump to conclusions. Just looking for clarification. Thanks.

 

[Rochir]

Just a littel friendly reminder - be nice and argue the posts, but do not flame the perosn.

Also, while we welcome different viewpoints about topics such as homosexuality, we here in WWMC do NOT need to be lectured about the "sinfulness" of it! WWMC is a safe heaven for any kind of lifestyle!

Please keep this guideline in mind and keep this thread from generating any more reports or it'll be Closing Time!

 

[QuakerOats]

I am the young woman who, after much discernment, got up out of the pew one Sunday, and walked out of church, and out of mainstream Christianity, due in large part to the rampant negative views concerning homosexuals, and homosexuality.

I'll tell you, I've never felt closer to God than I do now, and I believe it was he who finally called me out of there that Sunday.

Good thread, Domenico!

 

[Rochir]

I am the young woman who, after much discernment, got up out of the pew one Sunday, and walked out of church, and out of mainstream Christianity, due in large part to the rampant negative views concerning homosexuals, and homosexuality.

I'll tell you, I've never felt closer to God than I do now, and I believe it was he who finally called me out of there that Sunday.

Good thread, Domenico!

Indeed!

And good for your QO!

 

[DeanM]

I just have a couple of quick questions.

Do you all feel that everyone who believes homosexual behavior/lifestyle to be sinful must be homophobic? Further to that, do you believe that we all treat gay people the way the examples in the OP did?

I only ask because the OP, and many of the responses *seem* to imply this, but I am cannot tell for sure and don't want to jump to conclusions. Just looking for clarification. Thanks.

That is an excellent question.

I always thought that being gay was fine, though the bible may say differently depending on how you look at it.

Personally, I'm straight. But one thing I've heard from some other Christians is that I must be wrong if I think being gay is okay. They claim that if I cherry-pick the parts of the bible that I want to believe and not other parts, I might as well throw the whole bible in the trash.

To me, the bible mainly says to love others, and not to judge them.

Now, before I seem to be debating here, let me get back to your question: If some Christians berate me, a straight man, for accepting gay folks, one can only imagine how bad it must be for the people who are actually gay.

Please notice that I italicised the word 'some.'

No, I don't think that all Christians who believe homosexuality to be a sin are homophobes. But enough of them are that I tend to try to ignore the group as a whole.

I could give many examples of my prejudice against certain groups. Nazis, the KKK, etc. Perhaps not every one of their members has commited a violent act, but I really don't have the time to try to sift through their ranks to find the ones who are not-all-that-bad.

While the group of Christians who do believe that homosexuality is a sin might not deserve that I lumped them in with other groups that may be far worse than they are, the fact remains that I don't have time to sort them all out.

Is every one in any of these groups some sort of hater?

Who knows?

But for the same reason that I feel bad for African-Americans who live in a town with a strong KKK presence, or a Jew who lives down the street from a neo-nazi headquarters, I also feel bad for a gay person surrounded by Christians who assume the gay person is a sinner, while conveniently overlooking the fact that they, too, are also sinners.

Do all the Christians who believe in this sin treat homosexuals badly, or are they homophobes? No. Are there enough of them to cast a negative light onto their entire group? I suppose we'd have to ask somebody who is gay that question.

For my part, I accept gays as equals, and treat them with the same respect I would treat anyone else.

To me, a more important question would be what a homosexual person who believes that they are an abomination to God would think. That has to be the hardest topic of them all.

 

[UberLutheran]

I am the young woman who, after much discernment, got up out of the pew one Sunday, and walked out of church, and out of mainstream Christianity, due in large part to the rampant negative views concerning homosexuals, and homosexuality.

I'll tell you, I've never felt closer to God than I do now, and I believe it was he who finally called me out of there that Sunday.

Good thread, Domenico!

I remember when I did that, QuakerOats. I was visiting my sister's church and someone alerted the minister that a queer was in the audience (moi) so the Scripture lessons were suddenly changed from what was listed in the bulletin to Romans 1:26-32 and 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

After going through that humiliation, the minister preached a sermon about how women were the source of evil in the world since Satan knew the way to Adam was through Eve, which was why Paul women are to be subservient to men in all things (??!!); and then he moved on to how AIDS is God's divine punishment on homosexuals for their filthy, degenerate lifestyles.

While sitting there, I thought, "I grew up going to a church where I was spiritually abused, and here I am, sitting being spiritually abused again —and can I do better than that?" So I got up, put on my coat, and began walking out.

Her pastor pointed his finger at me and yelled (to the entire congregation), "THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THAT MAN!" I looked at him and yelled back, "The Holy Spirit did convict me —and that's why I'm walking out!" And then I walked out and drove home.

Good for you, QO, for leaving a place that was spiritually abusing you! It's a huge leap for us when we do that!

 

[desmalia]

Just a littel friendly reminder - be nice and argue the posts, but do not flame the perosn.

Also, while we welcome different viewpoints about topics such as homosexuality, we here in WWMC do NOT need to be lectured about the "sinfulness" of it! WWMC is a safe heaven for any kind of lifestyle!

Please keep this guideline in mind and keep this thread from generating any more reports or it'll be Closing Time!

I'm going to assume that mod hat came out because I (a horrible evil

fundie) had the audacity to post here . (Though maybe not... hopefully not...) Please let me assure you, I'm not here to debate the issue. I am just curious to know if you all consider me (and others who share my beliefs) to be homophobic. Further, please understand I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if you do. You're entitled to your opinions. I have no intention of reporting anyone if they want to say "yes" to my question. I'm just looking for honesty.

That is an excellent question.

I always thought that being gay was fine, though the bible may say differently depending on how you look at it.

Personally, I'm straight. But one thing I've heard from some other Christians is that I must be wrong if I think being gay is okay. They claim that if I cherry-pick the parts of the bible that I want to believe and not other parts, I might as well throw the whole bible in the trash.

To me, the bible mainly says to love others, and not to judge them.

Now, before I seem to be debating here, let me get back to your question: If some Christians berate me, a straight man, for accepting gay folks, one can only imagine how bad it must be for the people who are actually gay.

Please notice that I italicised the word 'some.'

No, I don't think that all Christians who believe homosexuality to be a sin are homophobes. But enough of them are that I tend to try to ignore the group as a whole.

I could give many examples of my prejudice against certain groups. Nazis, the KKK, etc. Perhaps not every one of their members has commited a violent act, but I really don't have the time to try to sift through their ranks to find the ones who are not-all-that-bad.

While the group of Christians who do believe that homosexuality is a sin might not deserve that I lumped them in with other groups that may be far worse than they are, the fact remains that I don't have time to sort them all out.

Is every one in any of these groups some sort of hater?

Who knows?

But for the same reason that I feel bad for African-Americans who live in a town with a strong KKK presence, or a Jew who lives down the street from a neo-nazi headquarters, I also feel bad for a gay person surrounded by Christians who assume the gay person is a sinner, while conveniently overlooking the fact that they, too, are also sinners.

Do all the Christians who believe in this sin treat homosexuals badly, or are they homophobes? No. Are there enough of them to cast a negative light onto their entire group? I suppose we'd have to ask somebody who is gay that question.

For my part, I accept gays as equals, and treat them with the same respect I would treat anyone else.

To me, a more important question would be what a homosexual person who believes that they are an abomination to God would think. That has to be the hardest topic of them all.

Thank you for your very thoughtful response, Dean.

 

[Domenico]

I must say that I didn't post this in order to single out anyone or any group. I posted it to show some of the things that fear can do to us all. I believe most of the people here have encountered this fear in their churches, which I think is truly sad.