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What has God done for you in your life?

Dallasthomas

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I have doubts, doubts of the very basis of the faith I was born with. I asked God for many different kinds of signs that He exists and received no answer but I never jumped to the conclusion that, that means He doesn't exist.

I remembered the story of the rich man and the beggar, the rich man was told that if his brothers didn't believe the prophets then they wouldn't believe a dead man who was raised from the grave either.

It got me thinking, maybe the only proof I'll receive is through believer's testimonies.

How many of you needed just $120 to pay the bills that month, and then a fellow believer who didn't know about your situation just randomly gave you the exact amount you needed? How many of you received blessings from God at the most unlikely of times? In ways that negate any possibility for it to have just been coincidence because the odds were millions to one?

I ask for this sort of testimony because I can explain away other aspects, which means Satan will continue to cast doubts about my faith. But I know statistics and I have heard of stories like this. Tell me, are they true? Does God bless you in ways where you can be SURE it is His doing? If so please share, I want to know the truth and put this behind me.
 

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I have doubts, doubts of the very basis of the faith I was born with. I asked God for many different kinds of signs that He exists and received no answer but I never jumped to the conclusion that, that means He doesn't exist.
God has no reason to give you a sign, it's sort of like giving you a sign that you need air.
It's just inside you.
Romans 1:18 - Romans 1:19

And I came to God after some pretty nasty experiences involving quite a bit of death.
I prayed for God to take away my murderous anger, because I didn't want to hurt anyone.
And now I'm calm, most of the times.
 
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God is good

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Hi, brother, I have had it happen when I was at the beginning of my faith, my family and I were late on rent and we were threatened to be evicted and I was praying and then God answered my prayer by having my grandma help pay it, I also got a job starting the next day or so. God's timing is perfect. Jesus Christ is Lord.
 
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Dallasthomas

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Jesus gave signs to the Jews because their faith was too weak. Miracles happened and people saw evidence. The miracles fizzled out as the Bible says, surely God will provide evidence in some way. I do not say that I deserve a sign, in fact I stopped looking, instead I am here looking for evidence in other people's lives. Just like the rich man who should have trusted the prophets I am now asking the believers for the evidence they have seen in their lives.
 
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Dallasthomas

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Hi, brother, I have had it happen when I was at the beginning of my faith, my family and I were late on rent and we were threatened to be evicted and I was praying and then God answered my prayer by having my grandma help pay it, I also got a job starting the next day or so. God's timing is perfect. Jesus Christ is Lord.

Thank you for your response. This is of course something that I could chalk up to coincidence, but you know the specific circumstances better than I.
 
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Symph

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My friend I could tell you tale after tale after tale of how God has come through for me with coincidences, numbers on clocks, signs on a wall, and many other things, but that should not be what causes you to believe. What causes you to believe should be the provability of the scriptures. God does not like clamoring for signs and wonders, and as someone who has experiences MANY signs and wonders in his life, I can tell you, you still doubt even after having experienced them. Even when you know it happened deep down, its like... for some reason you don't suddenly live like someone who's seen a miracle, you still freak out like God isn't in control sometimes.

I think God set up this amazing thing where the entire world is a miracle right before our eyes but we don't see it, and we start wanting God to show us a bending of physics when he HAS, he DID, and he RECORDED it, so he doesn't care to do it again cause all he did was enough.

The bible is a book that is claiming that 40 different authors over a period of 1500 years came together to produce the most controversial and time splitting book in all of history. This book claims that the earth has been flooded, that a man walked on water, fed 5000 people with a couple of loaves of bread and fish, healed the sick, raised the dead, was crucified in the largest empire in the world, it gives names, it gives dates, it claims he then rose from the dead, and you gotta realize that the romans KNEW that people would try to claim it was a hoax, that's WHY there was a stone, they didn't want anyone to be able to steal the body, and he STILL rose.

Bright minds were trying to discredit this story as soon as it happened basically, there were famous atheistic critics who tried to debunk it in the 2nd century, people have been driven mad trying to disprove it. Because these 4 eyewitness accounts vary in detail, but they get all the key aspects right that a person living at that time in that place would get right.

Then you gotta think about all those prophets, how they set this story up by saying where he'd be born, what he'd do, what they'd do with his clothes, and they just prove the prophecies right before your eyes and tell you. How would you even create this conspiracy? Governments tried to stamp the book out and they couldn't, people went to their deaths over it. It has predicted the one world government, it has predicted 3 great world powers that arose in our history.

Abraham was asked to kill Issac on the altar and then an angel told him to stop. It confuses many christians, but it's actually evidence of the bible's truth. Abraham was about to be given the seed that would lead to Jesus. He had to make sure that if he was going to give him the seed of his precious son who he was going to sacrifice, the one given the seed had to be WILLING to sacrifice his own son. I FULLY believe that is one very large reason he did that. But how could someone set up such a beautiful parallel? Like... people, hoax it, and why?

Also, you are to be testing God's PROMISES, when you throw yourself into his work, you yourself WILL see miracles, but you have to sacrifice things and like... you have to basically throw yourself in the fire if that makes sense. If you wanna see God act? Put yourself in a situation for Him where the only way out is if he DOES act and seriously do it for Him. That's what gets him to respond.

But I just... I wouldn't want you to believe because I told you a bunch of cool stories about miracles in my life anymore than Jesus would. Those miracles happened for me because I put myself between the sea and pharoah. If you do that? You'll see God act.

Other things to think about: There are 3 main religions in this world, hinduism, islam, and christianity. Hinduism has 1 billion followers, islam has 1.7, christianity has 2.2 billion. The next largest religion is buddhism with 330 million. It gets much smaller from there. What are the chances the truth is a religion of less than 330 million followers in a world of 7 billion? It would be wise to examine the main 3. What's interesting there is one religion is so confusing it can't really be defined easily but has millions of Gods and is very "choose your own adventure, whatever you feel" lol The other two are HIGHLY interesting because one says that God himself came to show us what true love and sacrifice looks like so that we could then take steps toward being like him with his help unashamed through faith in his sacrifice and love for the one who sent him. The other one basically says kill all the people who believe that stuff about the loving sacrifice.

Weird split right? Why do so many people fear the bible and not believe it? Why do so many people believe the bible and not read it? Why do so many people claim to understand the bible yet don't truly read it.

Now all that is well and good, those are things I think about alot and just go "wow..." But if you reeeeally want it proven to you? Just start giving and forgiving, talking to God honestly from the most honest place in yourself, ask him to reveal himself to you in his way in his time and he just will. It's honestly that simple if you'll just hold onto it the best you can while you wait for him. But you can't be asking for a demonstration, Jesus was not a fan of that at all. Ask to experience his goodness, ask him to give you eyes to see and ears to hear. And don't quit asking. It took me around 1 full year of asking god to talk to me on my knees for decent periods of time almost every day before he did. This is God we're talking about, he's not here to convince you of anything, you're here to find him.
 
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Dallasthomas

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Put yourself in a situation for Him where the only way out is if he DOES act and seriously do it for Him. That's what gets him to respond.

I will not tempt God, that is strictly forbidden. I will be honest, and I didn't want to say this, but I was a believer for a long time, but now I lean heavily on their being no god or gods. I am looking for evidence ANY evidence of the contrary.

There are two possibilities.
1. The secular viewpoint is correct or
2. Satan has produced a counterfeit that explains almost everything

I looked and looked trying to find the science first. I gave up on that quickly. I would look into something specific that seems simple, hear the secular viewpoint, then move on to AIG or another creationist website, then I would take their response to a science forum or something.

You know what I got EVERY time I dug deep into an issue? I got stonewalled, it always came down to something like the exact precision of the instrument in question or something of the like. I could never find proof of anything. I found that I got stonewalled with every issue of any subject.

For example.
Existentialism, I thought to myself "evolution wouldn't make us feel the need to have a greater purpose for our lives, it just rewards thoughts that help us survive or spread our genes. It must be God given"

Then I thought "unless it started as the simple need to explain things that were unknowable and then religions were formed, people who didn't believe didn't fit with the group and where therefore outcasts, basically making the feeling that there is a specific purpose to life, like serving their gods, a literal evolutionary benefit."

So there we go again, by my calculations, two perfectly viable explanations, I have no new information. Either the feeling of "greater purpose" to life is God given, or it is programmed into us by natural selection. Objectively, I need more evidence, this is what I find for just about every line of reasoning I can come up with.
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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I have doubts, doubts of the very basis of the faith I was born with. I asked God for many different kinds of signs that He exists and received no answer but I never jumped to the conclusion that, that means He doesn't exist.

I remembered the story of the rich man and the beggar, the rich man was told that if his brothers didn't believe the prophets then they wouldn't believe a dead man who was raised from the grave either.

It got me thinking, maybe the only proof I'll receive is through believer's testimonies.

How many of you needed just $120 to pay the bills that month, and then a fellow believer who didn't know about your situation just randomly gave you the exact amount you needed? How many of you received blessings from God at the most unlikely of times? In ways that negate any possibility for it to have just been coincidence because the odds were millions to one?

I ask for this sort of testimony because I can explain away other aspects, which means Satan will continue to cast doubts about my faith. But I know statistics and I have heard of stories like this. Tell me, are they true? Does God bless you in ways where you can be SURE it is His doing? If so please share, I want to know the truth and put this behind me.


1 Cor 1:22

New Testament is written in greek , New Testament is for you today , you need to believe not ask for signs , if every person asked for a sign of blitz i would be scared to walk on streets .

1 Cor 1:27

God didn't choose wisdom people but he choose people who have dubts and are in need of him , insteed of trying to save themselfs.

Odds of Christ fullfilling law when he came ( 350 + prophecy ) is so overwhelming that you can use it as proof , because if you choose every atom in universe to make dice out of it so you can roll the chances of that happening , there would be not enought atoms in universe to make dices to even roll the chances .

If you have dubts then you must have alredy accepted Christ , because you can't dubt something that you would know that it does not exist , like i don't dubt unicorn sitting in my other room because it does not exist here and im 100% sure about it .

Dubts come always after you sin , personally even few times a day . What helps with it is 1 John 1:9 , confess your sins and God will forget them and move on , don't spend whole day thinking about it because you waste oppurnity to do good this way . Insteed of looking for 30 min for answers every time you sin , confess them to Christ , forget about them and work for that 30 min and maybe send that money which you made in 30 min of your work to some charity , will make you feel better for sure rather than trying to save yourself , trust Christ that he can save you.
 
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Dallasthomas

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Please tell me of these miracles you say you have seen in your life. It won't be the basis of my faith but it could be the spark that ignites it. The worst case scenario is that I will deny it, harden my heart and it will be worse for me on judgement day then if you had not told me. The best case scenario is that it gets me to think to myself "maybe I was too hasty about this" and turn to the Father.

Do you see how I capitalize His name even though I don't really believe in Him? It's because I don't want to blaspheme Him if it turns out I am wrong. I am looking for real reasons to believe, I need more than just "Jesus saved me of my sins, I am now forgiven" because many charlatans can make people feel the same way.

I need more than just "God gave me this job" or "helped me in this vague way" because I know if that person hadn't gotten the job until 6 months latter instead he would be talking about how God was testing his faith for 6 months. If he had died then there's no one to tell the tale. Do you see my point? I want testimony that defies obvious explanation. Not something that COULD be explained by cognitive bias.
 
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Symph

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Put yourself in a situation for Him where the only way out is if he DOES act and seriously do it for Him. That's what gets him to respond.

I will not tempt God, that is strictly forbidden. I will be honest, and I didn't want to say this, but I was a believer for a long time, but now I lean heavily on their being no god or gods. I am looking for evidence ANY evidence of the contrary.

There are two possibilities.
1. The secular viewpoint is correct or
2. Satan has produced a counterfeit that explains almost everything

I looked and looked trying to find the science first. I gave up on that quickly. I would look into something specific that seems simple, hear the secular viewpoint, then move on to AIG or another creationist website, then I would take their response to a science forum or something.

You know what I got EVERY time I dug deep into an issue? I got stonewalled, it always came down to something like the exact precision of the instrument in question or something of the like. I could never find proof of anything. I found that I got stonewalled with every issue of any subject.

For example.
Existentialism, I thought to myself "evolution wouldn't make us feel the need to have a greater purpose for our lives, it just rewards thoughts that help us survive or spread our genes. It must be God given"

Then I thought "unless it started as the simple need to explain things that were unknowable and then religions were formed, people who didn't believe didn't fit with the group and where therefore outcasts, basically making the feeling that there is a specific purpose to life, like serving their gods, a literal evolutionary benefit."

So there we go again, by my calculations, two perfectly viable explanations, I have no new information. Either the feeling of "greater purpose" to life is God given, or it is programmed into us by natural selection. Objectively, I need more evidence, this is what I find for just about every line of reasoning I can come up with.
Hmmm... you know I... I think that's really valid. And I couldn't tell if you were quoting me or not but when I said "put yourself into a situation only God can get you out of" I don't mean like throw yourself in front of a train lmao I mean like.... think of something tangible you could do for him that would actually require you to rely on him, like going on a missions trip but not knowing if you'll have your job when you return etc.. Not sure if thats waht you meant.

But it sounds to me like you're a very logic and reason based person. So have you ever seen any really good apologetic videos? Ever heard of Kent Hovind or John Lennox?
 
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Symph

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Please tell me of these miracles you say you have seen in your life. It won't be the basis of my faith but it could be the spark that ignites it. The worst case scenario is that I will deny it, harden my heart and it will be worse for me on judgement day then if you had not told me. The best case scenario is that it gets me to think to myself "maybe I was too hasty about this" and turn to the Father.

Do you see how I capitalize His name even though I don't really believe in Him? It's because I don't want to blaspheme Him if it turns out I am wrong. I am looking for real reasons to believe, I need more than just "Jesus saved me of my sins, I am now forgiven" because many charlatans can make people feel the same way.

I need more than just "God gave me this job" or "helped me in this vague way" because I know if that person hadn't gotten the job until 6 months latter instead he would be talking about how God was testing his faith for 6 months. If he had died then there's no one to tell the tale. Do you see my point? I want testimony that defies obvious explanation. Not something that COULD be explained by cognitive bias.
Well... I suppose it is my testimony. I just. I want you to LOVE Jesus. Not just become convinced that he is real. But my miracles may not be as supernatural as you are wanting, but they still have no natural explanation.

I won't tell the story of HOW I came to talk to God because I've told it before on this forum, but the holy spirit speaks to me through a tangible physical sensation in my chest/heart area. If you're curious how that happened I'll tell you privately (I really am not too fond of talking about myself too much like this) But fast forward, to a time when the holy spirit speaking to me is something I'm used to.

I was having friends over, and we were drinking (I was very spiritual even though I was not like... the typical conservative christian) and I felt the holy spirit say "you will be going to jail tomorrow, but it's ok I will be with you" And I didn't believe it and said "No you wouldn't do that" but he said it again. Then I got scared, I told all my friends that the holy spirit just said I was going to jail tomorrow, they assured me it wasn't true. All throughout the night the confirmations were there, it never changed, I'm going to jail tomorrow. I became so convinced I woke my mother up and told HER what the spirit had said, she was confused and told me to just go to sleep.

I go to bed, but I was woken up in the middle of the night, another friend of mine had two girls with him, he said they had no place to go, I said they could crash. They slept in my bed, I slept on the couch, that was that. I woke up the next morning to the cops banging on my door, turns out the girls are runaways and I had no idea. My friend had dumped them on me because the cops called his cell phone and he was scared. There was beer in the house, the cops assumed things, I got contributing to the delinquency of minors and went to jail.

Now my whole life, prophets have told me I had the heart of David. It has stuck with me since I was about 20, and 3 different prophets who didn't know one another have said it 2 years apart each. So David is something I identify with big time.

I was TERRIFIED to go to jail, but on the way there, a peace came over me, I suddenly remembered "God told me I was coming here" and I began to look at it as an adventure with God. When I got into my pod, this big dude started messing with me, I thought this was it, I was gonna get eaten alive here. He tells me that he wants me to give him my bed because he wants a bottom bunk he's sick of being on the top and I can sleep on his bed. I am like "Sure man whatever take my bed I can climb up the ladder" out of fear. So I switch beds from the one the jail assigned me cause of this bully and I'm freaked out, when I climb up to the top of his bed, someone had carved into the cieling "David" and I suddenly felt the spirit, and realized even the bully was under God's control! He moved me where God wanted me!

Jail ended up teaching me so much about maturity, and strength, and was a wake up call to showing me I had addictions and was too lax with life. It was God ordained through and through, but you wanted miracles, well I told about 6 people it was going to happen before it did, my mother wrote that day down in her journal.

I'm not very comfortable sharing more publically, if you wanna know more pm me.
 
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Dallasthomas

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Well... I suppose it is my testimony. I just. I want you to LOVE Jesus. Not just become convinced that he is real. But my miracles may not be as supernatural as you are wanting, but they still have no natural explanation.

I won't tell the story of HOW I came to talk to God because I've told it before on this forum, but the holy spirit speaks to me through a tangible physical sensation in my chest/heart area. If you're curious how that happened I'll tell you privately (I really am not too fond of talking about myself too much like this) But fast forward, to a time when the holy spirit speaking to me is something I'm used to.

I was having friends over, and we were drinking (I was very spiritual even though I was not like... the typical conservative christian) and I felt the holy spirit say "you will be going to jail tomorrow, but it's ok I will be with you" And I didn't believe it and said "No you wouldn't do that" but he said it again. Then I got scared, I told all my friends that the holy spirit just said I was going to jail tomorrow, they assured me it wasn't true. All throughout the night the confirmations were there, it never changed, I'm going to jail tomorrow. I became so convinced I woke my mother up and told HER what the spirit had said, she was confused and told me to just go to sleep.

I go to bed, but I was woken up in the middle of the night, another friend of mine had two girls with him, he said they had no place to go, I said they could crash. They slept in my bed, I slept on the couch, that was that. I woke up the next morning to the cops banging on my door, turns out the girls are runaways and I had no idea. My friend had dumped them on me because the cops called his cell phone and he was scared. There was beer in the house, the cops assumed things, I got contributing to the delinquency of minors and went to jail.

Now my whole life, prophets have told me I had the heart of David. It has stuck with me since I was about 20, and 3 different prophets who didn't know one another have said it 2 years apart each. So David is something I identify with big time.

I was TERRIFIED to go to jail, but on the way there, a peace came over me, I suddenly remembered "God told me I was coming here" and I began to look at it as an adventure with God. When I got into my pod, this big dude started messing with me, I thought this was it, I was gonna get eaten alive here. He tells me that he wants me to give him my bed because he wants a bottom bunk he's sick of being on the top and I can sleep on his bed. I am like "Sure man whatever take my bed I can climb up the ladder" out of fear. So I switch beds from the one the jail assigned me cause of this bully and I'm freaked out, when I climb up to the top of his bed, someone had carved into the cieling "David" and I suddenly felt the spirit, and realized even the bully was under God's control! He moved me where God wanted me!

Jail ended up teaching me so much about maturity, and strength, and was a wake up call to showing me I had addictions and was too lax with life. It was God ordained through and through, but you wanted miracles, well I told about 6 people it was going to happen before it did, my mother wrote that day down in her journal.

I'm not very comfortable sharing more publically, if you wanna know more pm me.

No, no that's fine, thank you. I don't expect people to tell me they walked on water, just things like that.

You see now I look at it like this

Either you are lying

You are delusional

Your subconscious knew of the situation you would be getting into (probably the least likely)

You are the product of a very extreme random chance

Or God did indeed speak to you.

There are only 5 explanations now, this is exactly the kind of thing I was asking about, thank you.
 
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Symph

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No, no that's fine, thank you. I don't expect people to tell me they walked on water, just things like that.

You see now I look at it like this

Either you are lying

You are delusional

Your subconscious knew of the situation you would be getting into (probably the least likely)

You are the product of a very extreme random chance

Or God did indeed speak to you.

There are only 5 explanations now, this is exactly the kind of thing I was asking about, thank you.
I'll pm you more then, maybe not tonight it's late but.... believe me... I've got more...
 
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Symph

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No, no that's fine, thank you. I don't expect people to tell me they walked on water, just things like that.

You see now I look at it like this

Either you are lying

You are delusional

Your subconscious knew of the situation you would be getting into (probably the least likely)

You are the product of a very extreme random chance

Or God did indeed speak to you.

There are only 5 explanations now, this is exactly the kind of thing I was asking about, thank you.
Oh also, I'm pretty good with logic. I'd say you can rule out lying because of the embarrassing and incriminating nature of the story. I couldn't really think of a much better one and I don't mind people knowing I've been to jail, but if I was gonna make something up I doubt I'd let all my christian friends think I went to jail just to spice the story up haha.

I think we can rule out delusional just by how I'm talking, delusional people suffer delusions they aren't usually lucid, at least not, completely. Well... I think you can consider delusional "unlikely". I suppose I could be like, really good at hiding my delusions, but then again how would I all over the forum, it'd slip at some point.

It's funny, "subconscious knew of the situation" you said that was probably the least likely, imo it's the easiest to believe other explanation than God. Because some people experience psychic phenomena and there are parts of the brain we don't understand, so I mean, perhaps it was an extreme intuition. In my opinion you could put a higher probability on that than the others. I personally know it's not true because this is just one of countless instances, I rely on this same "intuition" all day every day to this day. But you don't know that, so you can still leave this one a possibility ;)

Extreme random chance..... well... now we're just speculating.

God really did speak? Well you already know what I think hehe

I'm just having a bit of mind games.
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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Please tell me of these miracles you say you have seen in your life. It won't be the basis of my faith but it could be the spark that ignites it. The worst case scenario is that I will deny it, harden my heart and it will be worse for me on judgement day then if you had not told me. The best case scenario is that it gets me to think to myself "maybe I was too hasty about this" and turn to the Father.

Do you see how I capitalize His name even though I don't really believe in Him? It's because I don't want to blaspheme Him if it turns out I am wrong. I am looking for real reasons to believe, I need more than just "Jesus saved me of my sins, I am now forgiven" because many charlatans can make people feel the same way.

I need more than just "God gave me this job" or "helped me in this vague way" because I know if that person hadn't gotten the job until 6 months latter instead he would be talking about how God was testing his faith for 6 months. If he had died then there's no one to tell the tale. Do you see my point? I want testimony that defies obvious explanation. Not something that COULD be explained by cognitive bias.


Existence of God without using bible ,

Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Only uncause being like God can cause something to begin , without needing himself to begin , because he is eternal , no beginning and no end .


If you want more proof , well Jesus fullfilled 350+ prophecy written more than thousand years before he was born , you can check them here AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

If you need more proof there is prophecy being fullfilled in your lifetime , John write about 2000 years ago when he was on island as prisoner , having only rocks and sticks around him yet he was able to somehow predict that Revelation 12 sign , which is happening in our life on 23 September 2017 you can check wikipedia .

Revelation 12 Sign - Wikipedia
 
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Symph

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Existence of God without using bible ,

Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Only uncause being like God can cause something to begin , without needing himself to begin , because he is eternal , no beginning and no end .


If you want more proof , well Jesus fullfilled 350+ prophecy written more than thousand years before he was born , you can check them here AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

If you need more proof there is prophecy being fullfilled in your lifetime , John write about 2000 years ago when he was on island as prisoner , having only rocks and sticks around him yet he was able to somehow predict that Revelation 12 sign , which is happening in our life on 23 September 2017 you can check wikipedia .

Revelation 12 Sign - Wikipedia
I didn't know about the revelation 12 sign.... trippy....
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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I didn't know about the revelation 12 sign.... trippy....

Well then replace that with Jews getting thier land back , from Adam to Abraham is 1948 years , God promised to gather scattered Jews back to land and they got thier land back on 1948 , coincidence ?
 
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Symph

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Well then replace that with Jews getting thier land back , from Adam to Abraham is 1948 years , God promised to gather scattered Jews back to land and they got thier land back on 1948 , coincidence ?
This is pretty controversial, but I'm not convinced that was the real event. I think the prophecy may be referring to spiritual israel, and nefarious people may have used the prophecy for their own purposes. I don't wanna elaborate though.
 
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Dallasthomas

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I am well aware of the prophesies Jesus fulfilled, but I am looking for evidence that can't have alternative explanations. In the words of some atheist person I don't remember (and again not my words) "It amazes me that a fiction book's prophesies being fulfilled by it's fictional squeal amazes people."

You see I looked to the Bible to see what kind of evidence God might present. God didn't tell the rich man "you should have just known" or "you should have asked for a sign" he said "you should have believed the prophets". What I am doing is asking the prophets, weighing the odds of lying, self delusion/exaggerated stories etc. vs it simply being the truth.
 
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