What happens to our guilt?

[mindlight]

When we sin we have objective guilt for the sins we have committed?

But Jesus death on the cross provides us a way of dealing with this guilt.

But what happens to the guilt?

1) Is it just washed away?
2) Is it paid for in the manner of a fine for example and thus no longer has any legal power over us, although in a sense mention of it still exists on the statute books?
3) Is it transformed into something new and better that would not have been possible had not the guilt occurred?
4) Does it continue to exist but in a sense is simply concealed. So for example if we were to turn away from Christ that action would then uncover these sins.
5) None of the above and something else

 

[holyrokker]

Those who live by faith are declared righteous by God. The guilt is absolved; forgiven and forgotten.

 

[Chayei Olam]

I always feel guilty when I am tempted by sin and I even entertain the thought of it.

This is a gift of God.

Praise the Lord.

 

[Chayei Olam]

Praise the Lord

 

[Chayei Olam]

Praise the Lord

 

[BillyShope]

This is of no concern for those walking in the Spirit. The new man cannot sin. The old man can, however, and is still around. We are to consider that old man dead, which means that we are certainly not to dwell upon those sins in any way, whether to feel guilt or to confess them. We live under grace and not a legal system.

 

[Rev Randy]

This is of no concern for those walking in the Spirit. The new man cannot sin. The old man can, however, and is still around. We are to consider that old man dead, which means that we are certainly not to dwell upon those sins in any way, whether to feel guilt or to confess them. We live under grace and not a legal system.

Now does dead to sin really mean we cannot sin?
1John 2:1 would seem a useless verse if that were true. Paul also said that he knew to do right but still did wrong. Yes we live under grace and not under the Law but does that mean we should break commandments and expect no guilt or shame? Shame for sins forgiven is useless and not of the Holy Spirit but shame for living like those of this world is of the Holy Spirit. Remember that when John wrote "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.", know without a doubt that he wasn't writing to the lost world but to the Church. Verse !:8 says that if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Verse 9 gives the cure. Salvation is a one time thing but working our that salvation is continual.
Yes shame can be a gift of God but for sins confessed it can also be a trick of the devil.

 

[Forge3]

God is love or agape. He who is God makes us forget our sins.

 

[Rev Randy]

And people (working with the devil) never fail to remind us.

 

[BillyShope]

Now does dead to sin really mean we cannot sin?
1John 2:1 would seem a useless verse if that were true. Paul also said that he knew to do right but still did wrong. Yes we live under grace and not under the Law but does that mean we should break commandments and expect no guilt or shame? Shame for sins forgiven is useless and not of the Holy Spirit but shame for living like those of this world is of the Holy Spirit. Remember that when John wrote "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.", know without a doubt that he wasn't writing to the lost world but to the Church. Verse !:8 says that if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Verse 9 gives the cure. Salvation is a one time thing but working our that salvation is continual.
Yes shame can be a gift of God but for sins confessed it can also be a trick of the devil.

I would suggest that you read a post more thoroughly before you respond.

 

[Rev Randy]

Expounding upon. Not condemning. I loved your post and was in agreement. I should have explained that better. Your next to last sentence was what I was posting in agreement to. Seems you read more into my post than posted.

 

[BillyShope]

...but shame for living like those of this world is of the Holy Spirit.

No, it is not. To feel shame or sorrow for that which is of the flesh and not of God is to deny that God bore the punishment for ALL our sin. When I die, I'll be leaving that old man in the rotting corpse, where it belongs. I explain this more fully in "The principle of right division" on shopeshop.org, but the primary source, for believers in this Dispensation of Grace, is Romans through Philemon.

 

[Rev Randy]

So brother, it seems we disagree on this point. I agree that once we are rid of this troublesome body we will have no shame or a need for shame. I do not agree that it has already happened unless you have already overcome the flesh.
When I hurt myself in this body, I have pain. When I disappoint my Lord I have pain that I call shame. Perhaps you don't. I am speaking of myself as that is the only soul I can speak of with wisdom.
It's ok that we disagree. We've already learned a bit about each other through it.
Ecce quam bonum!

 

[BillyShope]

...unless you have already overcome the flesh.

Certainly not! But, NOT to feel shame is to live as God would have us live in this dispensation. If we live in guilt, we are not free to live in grace. Guilt and grace do not mix. To live in guilt is to live in dominion to the old man. Again, Paul makes this very clear.

 

[Rev Randy]

Who's speaking of living in shame? I have shame when it's needed, repent and go on in peace. Also not being a dispensationalist I don't live in dispensations. My God both rebukes and chastises me. He has to as He loves me. Do you really think that when you err God simply turns a blind eye to it? I know we live under grace but just what is your understanding of dead to sin. What did the price Jesus paid remove? The ability to sin or the death sentence?

Suscepit eos de via.

 

[BillyShope]

Also not being a dispensationalist...

Without agreement on such a basic teaching, it would be pointless to continue a discussion. I'm not "talking down" to you; I'm simply stating a fact. I hope I've encouraged you to look into dispensationalism further. You might look at "The principle of right division" under "Christianity" at shopeshop.org. Also, consider how the teaching regarding circumcision has changed so drastically before you deny that God has chosen to deal differently with His creation at different times (dispensations).

 

[Rev Randy]

I don't feel talked down to at all. I was first schooled at Liberty U. as I began as a Baptist pastor after 3 years of being a street corner preacher. I assure you I've examined dispensationalism at great length. As to whether our discussion is pontless would depend on why you enguaged in it in the first place. I don't frequent this forum to bring people around to Rev Randy's point of view. I'm a lover of people so I like to see what makes them tick (how they came to believe in what they believe). Does one have to be dispensational to be your friend?
We argee that Jesus died for our sins. That is what makes me your brother. I do not hold fast to any of the three main schools of thought on this. I find it slants my attempts to study. All three are accepted within my Church and I personally hold issue with only one and it's not dispensationalism. I'm sure you can serve God well within that mindset.
We need not agree to hold a friendly discussion. What a boring world this would be if we agreed on every issue. I doubt we could be zealous witnesses if we were not passionate about certian things. In heaven, we will agree on every issue. But there will be no one to witness to there. Only someone very special to worship.
This is not an I'm right and your wrong issue. This is simply us explaining to each other why we believe the way we do. I respect your thoughts and it doesn't matter if we ever (this side of Glory) come to complete agreement. I don't always agree with my earthly sister but I still love her. In Christ Billy and Randy should have an even closer relationship than that of earthly siblings.

 

[BillyShope]

This is not an I'm right and your wrong issue.

But, of course, this is the final conclusion, since the Bible is the Word of God and words have meanings. The teaching on the necessity of circumcision and the teaching that "neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision" cannot coexist without recognition of a dispensational change.

Much can be said about the differences in scriptural understanding among believers all destined for Heaven, but the fact remains that there is only one correct understanding. As one preacher put it: You pray for understanding on a particular matter and then preach as if there was never any doubt in your mind.

If I was the first to engage you on some matter...and I could very well have been..., it was with the understanding that I could help the other readers of these posts to a correct understanding. Yes, I teach as if there was never any doubt in my mind!

 

[Rev Randy]

When I spoke of right and wrong I was speaking of friendship. Of a certianty there is only one truth.