What happened to the charismatic renewal ?

CatholicFlame · Jan 18, 2008

Hawko,

I think you will find this book a good read. It is about the prophetic voice being not accepted in the church.

It was written by one of the first charismatic priest in the country.

It is called "I am sending you prophets."
http://www.spiritdaily.com/churchprophets.htm

enjoy this.

CatholicFlame · Jan 18, 2008

Hawko, you said:

My wife and myself attended at least one prayer group a week, plus a young adult group once a month, which we traveled a great distance to attend.

That is wonderful. I have noticed that God greatly blesses those who go out of their way to seek Him.

Now, it is the opposite; most parishes don't have a prayer group, and if they do, it is a very small group. What has happened ? I believe that this is the reason for their demise: Many times during charismatic prayer meetings, the Lord would speak to the people in prophecy. These were always beautiful words from the Lord. Every once in a while, someone would speak a prophetic message from the Lord, which conveyed a need for repentance . There were also sometimes specific messages pertaining to future events. When these type of prophetic messages were given, immediately, the "leaders" of the group would say, "that's not from the Lord", and thereby stifle the Holy Spirit. If it wasn't a message of "good news', they didn't want to hear it. Any messages of "doom and gloom" were in their opinion not from the Lord. So, the authorities in the church succeeded in stifling the Holy Spirit and the entire charismatic renewal, simply because they thought that they had all the answers and also the mind of God.

I heartily agree with you. I have travelled all over to many praer groups and have had many prophecies given through me, but I have also faced alot of persecution for this.

The renewal does not know how to deal with prophecies of calling to repentance very much. Some will hear it no doubt, because God's word never returns to Him without accomplishing what it was sent to do. Sometimes it was sent to be persecuted. Many are saved by the sufferings of God's people my friend.

And just remember this always:

My brother "No prophet is accepted in His own town.

But Rejoice, for your reward will be great in Heaven. For thus did they treat the prophets of old."

The peace of Christ be with you. And the Lord ever be your shining light.

CatholicFlame · Jan 18, 2008

I have a word for you Hawko:

But we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing power may be of God and not from us.
We are afflicted in every way, but not constrained; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being given up to death for the sake of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you.
2 Cor 4:7-12

JoabAnias · Jan 18, 2008

CatholicFlame said:
I think that Hawko and bartek are showing the truth of this. Catholics want to be both charismatic and catholic.

I think we always were my friend.

Undoubtedly though there were those in the pews who didn't understand the gifts and others who do not wish to scandalize those who do not. Just as St. Paul spoke in advice to the Corinthians. This is why the worship of the Corinthian Church was different but also why the Pentacostal prayer group within the Chruch is efficatious because it gives an outlet for those who feel the need to worship in a more outward or emotional sign without causing a change in the Mass beyond the greetings, sign of peace, and holding hands high at the Our-Father. There are also other ways to do this too like lay-apostolates for example. I have a Dr. friend who wears a Lay-Franciscan habit in His only garment and I used to wear only sandals for the same purpose for a time. I came to a realization in my imitation of Christ well over a decade now though that I am called to be in the world and not of the world. Not retreat from the world which is what I would have been doing if I had walked the Earth with no where to lay my head. Lol. Where I lived at that time I would have froze to death the first winter. Lol.

I know I have gone through fazes of holding my hands high at Mass and others not so much. Imho its all about descerning the true spirit of Vatican II. Modernism wasn't it but what changes are true enabling the layity to be ever more active will continue.

Peace.

Peaceful Dove · Jan 18, 2008

Isn't wonderful that Holy Mother Church is big enough to embrace all different forms of worship. I have good friends who love the Latin Mass. I happen to love the Byzantine Rite, my dear friend was a Bi-Ritual Priest and we use to celebrate both at different times. We have Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, we have Perpetual Adoration in our Parish. We have a Rosary Group there. We have a very vibrant Parish because our Pastor encourages each group. We even had an all Spanish Life in the Spirit Seminar and they have their own Prayer meetings. The very often come to ours and when we have our Charismatic Masses Father does a Bi-Lingual Mass.

We do not have Charismatic Worship in the Adoration Room, nor do we have Rosary at Charismatic Worship. Each form of worship stands on it's own feet because each one is very valid by itself and helps build up the Parish. We also have small groups, bible studies, Church history and tradition studies along with tons of other groups.

It is pretty hard to try to mix them up and give each one the time and energy and MINISTRY they each deserve.

winsome · Jan 19, 2008

CatholicFlame said:
Let me tell you what I see dawning in the Church. The charismatic renewal has opened up catholics to the possibility of using charismatic gifts. Also many have had a renewal of teh graces received through the scraments. We also have received the gift of praise and worship in a big way.

But these gifts are meant to foster a deeper renewal of what we have already received in teh sacraments. Escpecially the eucharist, which the church rightly terms the source and summit of our faith.

The next generation is becoming more fully catholic and charismatic, both together. The sacraments are becoming central to the renewal and now we are seeing huge growth like that of steubenville. Thousands of young people are being taught both solid catholic tradition and also the charismatic elements are there.

I go along with that CatholicFlame. The signs are there if you look. It is like new shoots sprouting in unexpected places.

hawko · Jan 19, 2008

JoabAnias said:
The biggest things that I have seen cause the disbanding of charismatic groups are spiritual pride and controlling prophesies and generally poor leadership.

When there is poor leadership where prophesies emerge that seek to control or instill fear in people or others begin to assert themselves as more spiritual than others then rivalries crop up and people cease to attend and I think rightly so.

I saw this several times toward the end of the millenia where some unfortunate hysteria occured. It caused the disbanding of two groups I am aware of and I think they should have. A third group that did survive moved its meetings into the Church chapel under the guidance of a Deacon but hasn't grown in size nevertheless and in which only one regular participant besides the Deacon can I see visible spiritual growth and fruits in the past eight years but the fellowship is still good. Its akin to an ultreaya meeting from which I have seen one person seek to become a Deacon after offering eucharistic services at nursing homes. Hope he made it all the way, I don't know the outcome because I moved. I think for it to actually grow it would be helpful for more clergy to be leading the meetings with a consistant format adding things such as benediction and littanies.

Peace.

I agree with what you are saying. If the "leaders" try to control or squash the Holy Spirit, then eventually there will be no more prayer group.

CatholicFlame · Jan 19, 2008

Winsome,

If you want to know what the new generation of catholi charismatics are like, the steubenville thread here really paints a good picture. They are praising and worhiping, raising their hands, the pray in tongues, and they also prya the rosary and have adoration. All of the catholic elements are coming together as one. Although the older leadership in the church does not approve, it is actually what they worked so hard to bring out. Full incorporation.

I think that if people would realize that this renewal matures, and that it becomes more and more full catholic, then there would be an epiphany.

JoabAnias · Jan 19, 2008

hawko said:
I agree with what you are saying. If the "leaders" try to control or squash the Holy Spirit, then eventually there will be no more prayer group.

When I've seen groups disband it wasn't intentional by anyone but in retrospect I think some of it was the work of the deciever. One leader started to believe the world was going to end in the year 2000, and started trying to tell everyone what they should be doing, another leader in another group got overbearing too and yet another just had no guidance at all that left everyone confused. Adults don't want to go to a prayer meeting to be diciplined by someone claiming to be holier than thou. Once the Deacon took over that third group though there was better cohesion but still to much pentacostalism for my taste which felt like rejection of catholicism to me. Descernments were consistently asked for that never came and suggestions for improvement were never taken seriously. That was enough for me. Don't get me wrong, great and holy people and good friends but just not my cup of tea. I find I am much more comfortable with the LOH before and the Rosary after Mass. I am better able to raise my hands, heart and prayer language to God when in my own prayer closet. Don't have a need to do that any more publically than I already do. Maybe thats a mistake but thats where I am at.

HisKid1973 · Jan 19, 2008

We have an enemy that would rather see the downplay and elimination of the of the spirit filled life.We also have flesh that rises up when giftings arise and rather operate with a servants heart to encourage and draw the gifts out pride comes and people think more high of themselves then they ought..I've seen it happen many times..Sad we give in to the flesh so easy..

winsome · Jan 20, 2008

CatholicFlame said:
Winsome,

If you want to know what the new generation of catholi charismatics are like, the steubenville thread here really paints a good picture. They are praising and worhiping, raising their hands, the pray in tongues, and they also prya the rosary and have adoration. All of the catholic elements are coming together as one. Although the older leadership in the church does not approve, it is actually what they worked so hard to bring out. Full incorporation.

I think that if people would realize that this renewal matures, and that it becomes more and more full catholic, then there would be an epiphany.

Thanks for pointing that thread out. Wonderful things are going on.

In Australia Flame Ministries International are doing wonderful work as well. They are running a rally called ARISE; A Trumpet Call for a Joshua Generation.

They say:

THERE IS A BOLD GENERATION OF JOSHUA-WARRIORS RISING IN THE CHURCH THAT TRANSCENDS AGE GROUPS, GENDER, DENOMINATIONS AND POSITION TO GATHER THE LATTER DAY HARVEST. THEY COME FROM ALL AGE GROUPS AND WALKS OF LIFE.

HisKid1973 · Jan 20, 2008

winsome said:
Thanks for pointing that thread out. Wonderful things are going on.

In Australia Flame Ministries International are doing wonderful work as well. They are running a rally called ARISE; A Trumpet Call for a Joshua Generation.

They say:

THERE IS A BOLD GENERATION OF JOSHUA-WARRIORS RISING IN THE CHURCH THAT TRANSCENDS AGE GROUPS, GENDER, DENOMINATIONS AND POSITION TO GATHER THE LATTER DAY HARVEST. THEY COME FROM ALL AGE GROUPS AND WALKS OF LIFE.

That's cool Bro., thanks for sharing that..We have youth here rising up that are passionate for Christ and for spreading th gospel..We have gatherings here..One is is called 'The Call" Peace to you..Kim

CatholicFlame · Jan 20, 2008

In Australia Flame Ministries International are doing wonderful work as well. They are running a rally called ARISE; A Trumpet Call for a Joshua Generation.

They say:

THERE IS A BOLD GENERATION OF JOSHUA-WARRIORS RISING IN THE CHURCH THAT TRANSCENDS AGE GROUPS, GENDER, DENOMINATIONS AND POSITION TO GATHER THE LATTER DAY HARVEST. THEY COME FROM ALL AGE GROUPS AND WALKS OF LIFE.

Winsome,

I can see that they are working in the vineyard in a different way, reaching out to the non-churched. That is truly wonderful to hear about. Can you give a link to flame ministries for those who might be interested. I have been to their site before and got the free book called "Walk in the Spirit."

Thank you for this post

MoNiCa4316 · Jan 20, 2008

I really have no idea how big/small the Renewal is, lol. I live in a small(ish) town and I found a church nearby that has a charismatic prayer group that meets once a week, a healing mass once a month, and Life in the Spirit seminars (is that what they're called? I can't really remember). I guess that's pretty lucky! I don't know how big the prayer group is though. I'm hoping to visit the healing mass sometime and see how it's like. There's another church in my town that also has a charismatic prayer group but it looks very small because the church is small. I don't know how it's like in Canada though...

HisKid1973 · Jan 20, 2008

MoNiCa4316 said:
I really have no idea how big/small the Renewal is, lol. I live in a small(ish) town and I found a church nearby that has a charismatic prayer group that meets once a week, a healing mass once a month, and Life in the Spirit seminars (is that what they're called? I can't really remember). I guess that's pretty lucky! I don't know how big the prayer group is though. I'm hoping to visit the healing mass sometime and see how it's like. There's another church in my town that also has a charismatic prayer group but it looks very small because the church is small. I don't know how it's like in Canada though...

Check them out, keep up posted..Your used to walking in the Spirit...You will sense where He is moving...

Peaceful Dove · Jan 20, 2008

MoNiCa4316 said:
I really have no idea how big/small the Renewal is, lol. I live in a small(ish) town and I found a church nearby that has a charismatic prayer group that meets once a week, a healing mass once a month, and Life in the Spirit seminars (is that what they're called? I can't really remember). I guess that's pretty lucky! I don't know how big the prayer group is though. I'm hoping to visit the healing mass sometime and see how it's like. There's another church in my town that also has a charismatic prayer group but it looks very small because the church is small. I don't know how it's like in Canada though...

I look forward to having you come back and tell us about them. Wow!!! How exciting!
Canada has some good Charismatic Priests. I know that.

winsome · Jan 21, 2008

CatholicFlame said:
Winsome,

I can see that they are working in the vineyard in a different way, reaching out to the non-churched. That is truly wonderful to hear about. Can you give a link to flame ministries for those who might be interested. I have been to their site before and got the free book called "Walk in the Spirit."

Thank you for this post

The Flame Ministries site is - http://www.flameministries.org/

A couple of sections on the site of particular interest:

http://www.flameministries.org/blaze.html - lots of good articles

http://www.flameministries.org/newsmenu.htm - news

http://www.flameministries.org/joshua-arise.htm - Arise rally

Eddie Russell who started Flame Ministries International (FMI) comes from England but is now resident in Australia. He has a very powerful testimony of how God saved him when he was dying and staring into the pit. He has also raised someone from the dead. He is an officially commissioned Catholic Evangelist.

David Harp, who is (I think) also now a senior director of FMI was completely cured from Aids. He has an amazing testimony too. I have heard them both speaking when they were over in UK.

Derek Williams is based in UK. He is a very good speaker. I have been on the FMI "Set My People On Fire" Bible seminar which he ran. This is a powerful charismatic Bible based 15 week (& 3 weekends) seminar.

What happened to the charismatic renewal ?

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