What happened to the charismatic renewal ?

[hawko]

What has happened to the charismatic renewal ? I became involved in the charismatic renewal in the late 1970's and early 1980's. back then almost every catholic church had a charismatic prayer group, and they were large groups. I remember attending charismatic conferences in Philadelphia Pa. which boasted thousands of attendees. My wife and myself attended at least one prayer group a week, plus a young adult group once a month, which we traveled a great distance to attend. Now, it is the opposite; most parishes don't have a prayer group, and if they do, it is a very small group. What has happened ? I believe that this is the reason for their demise: Many times during charismatic prayer meetings, the Lord would speak to the people in prophecy. These were always beautiful words from the Lord. Every once in a while, someone would speak a prophetic message from the Lord, which conveyed a need for repentance . There were also sometimes specific messages pertaining to future events. When these type of prophetic messages were given, immediately, the "leaders" of the group would say, "that's not from the Lord", and thereby stifle the Holy Spirit. If it wasn't a message of "good news', they didn't want to hear it. Any messages of "doom and gloom" were in their opinion not from the Lord. So, the authorities in the church succeeded in stifling the Holy Spirit and the entire charismatic renewal, simply because they thought that they had all the answers and also the mind of God. I believe that the original intended purpose of the charismatic renewal in the Catholic church was to bring the people into a much deeper closer personal relationship with the Lord, and to spiritually prepare them for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Look what has happened today; the charismatic renewal has all but died out, and if anyone dares to speak about the second coming of the Lord, they are told that they need the gift of discernment. All I can say, with this kind of attitude, when the Lord does come, most people will be caught off guard and will not be ready to receive Him.

 

[HisKid1973]

Just curious, who are "they" are and where has the "movement" died? Blessings..Kim

 

[Peaceful Dove]

The Charismatic Renewal never died. I am sure of that.
It did slow way down.
It is true we made a lot of mistakes our of ignorance. I don't think we were prepared for the huge outpouring of the Holy Spirit that was happening.
At the same time, a large portion of the Catholic Church (a with many Protestant churches) were opposed to the Charismatic Gifts. Many felt the gifts ended with the Apostles. Worse yet, a lot were clergy. I know of Churches that had good Prayer groups that ended when a new Priest who would not support it was transferred in.
However, we are seeing a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This is awesome in a way. We will be better prepared now. Older Charismatics should be getting core groups together and start new Prayer Groups in your parishes.
That is what we have done. Train your younger folks.
We are also seeing non-Catholic Charismatics coming to our Prayer Groups. Some have loved our Charismatic Masses so much they have joined RCIA.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal cannot be too dead or we wouldn't have this Forum.

 

[hawko]

The Charismatic Renewal never died. I am sure of that.
It did slow way down.
It is true we made a lot of mistakes our of ignorance. I don't think we were prepared for the huge outpouring of the Holy Spirit that was happening.
At the same time, a large portion of the Catholic Church (a with many Protestant churches) were opposed to the Charismatic Gifts. Many felt the gifts ended with the Apostles. Worse yet, a lot were clergy. I know of Churches that had good Prayer groups that ended when a new Priest who would not support it was transferred in.
However, we are seeing a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This is awesome in a way. We will be better prepared now. Older Charismatics should be getting core groups together and start new Prayer Groups in your parishes.
That is what we have done. Train your younger folks.
We are also seeing non-Catholic Charismatics coming to our Prayer Groups. Some have loved our Charismatic Masses so much they have joined RCIA.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal cannot be too dead or we wouldn't have this Forum.

We are the "faithful remnant" that the Lord is using to bring others to Him.

 

[hawko]

Just curious, who are "they" are and where has the "movement" died? Blessings..Kim

"They" are the modern day prophets whom most people tend to ignore. The charismatic movement has died in the area that I live in.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

God saved me from lung cancer to start a Charismatic Prayer Group in a nearly dead parish. It was the least likely parish in the entire area. I heard God's voice while I was on the Radiation table telling me why he was saving me. I argued with Him and said, "Lord, you cannot mean THAT Parish". He told me just to do as He asks and He would open the doors. I am now, totally cured of lung cancer and we have a Prayer Group in that Church that takes care of 4 local parishes.

If you do not have a Charismatic Prayer Group in your area, gather up the remnants and start one. Train your new folks and allow God to open doors.

 

[HisKid1973]

I think the charasmatic move is alive and well all the places I have been. I have been involved in it since 73. I have seen alot but along with it I've seen alot of flesh, which today it is still there even though the movement is maturing it is fresh in many ways . Satan always has counterfeits in action to try and disrupt what is real...You really need alot of discernment today..Some of the well known names today are not setting the best example as flesh tends to get it's way..Still there are voices crying out in the wilderness if you know what I mean .The whole rolls royce and million dollar mansion crowd went of in it's own direction..So much out there to sort through..Thing is it is our responsibility to be obedient to what God desires us to be and set a good example..Prayer keeps everything in focus...Remember like you said, He always has a remnant..The gifts are alive and people all over our persueing Him with a passion..Personally, I see last days apostasy before our eyes..It's scary to see the direction some are going..I see dominionism pouring forth..
I am wondering again and bring my thoughts back to myself...I was part of a large spirit filled church that has incredible worship and some incredible soak sessions till we moved to Fl..Even there we plugged into a good ecclesia's in both places we lived...When we returned to Pa, we went back to a smaller BIC church where my wife came to Christ as a teen..God brought in a Spirit filled pastor and the place is filling up....He started what is called family altar where you come up for prayer/ annoiting with oil and laying on of hands...It somehow got the attention of a local bishop and he has know been asked to get it stated at other churches.It is so cool to be in a ground work and see people open up in worship, raising of hands and the minitry of the body taking place.. I really think God is wakin and shakin and the remnant is alive in the midst of all the church playing that is going on..I rejoice to see Him moving in these days.

grace and peace ...Kim

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I think the charasmatic move is alive and well all the places I have been. I have been involved in it since 73. I have seen alot but along with it I've seen alot of flesh, which today it is still there even though the movement is maturing it is fresh in many ways . Satan always has counterfeits in action to try and disrupt what is real...You really need alot of discernment today..Some of the well known names today are not setting the best example as flesh tends to get it's way..Still there are voices crying out in the wilderness if you know what I mean .The whole rolls royce and million dollar mansion crowd went of in it's own direction..So much out there to sort through..Thing is it is our responsibility to be obedient to what God desires us to be and set a good example..Prayer keeps everything in focus...Remember like you said, He always has a remnant..The gifts are alive and people all over our persueing Him with a passion..Personally, I see last days apostasy before our eyes..It's scary to see the direction some are going..I see dominionism pouring forth..
I am wondering again and bring my thoughts back to myself...I was part of a large spirit filled church that has incredible worship and some incredible soak sessions till we moved to Fl..Even there we plugged into a good ecclesia's in both places we lived...When we returned to Pa, we went back to a smaller BIC church where my wife came to Christ as a teen..God brought in a Spirit filled pastor and the place is filling up....He started what is called family altar where you come up for prayer/ annoiting with oil and laying on of hands...It somehow got the attention of a local bishop and he has know been asked to get it stated at other churches.It is so cool to be in a ground work and see people open up in worship, raising of hands and the minitry of the body taking place.. I really think God is wakin and shakin and the remnant is alive in the midst of all the church playing that is going on..I rejoice to see Him moving in these days.

grace and peace ...Kim

Out of curiosity, who is the local Bishop and where is he from.

Your story is very much like ours and many of my friends from other areas.
It seems as if the Lord is moving a bit slower and more measured this time.
Is this what you are seeing?

 

[HisKid1973]

Hi Peace we have a bishop named Craig Sider who is over NY and eastern Pa. He lives in the same town as our church..I don't remember the local bishops name..I emailed the pastor's secretary for more info..I told her it would be cool if this altar ministry started something with the other local brethern in Christ churches..We have a very strong missionary outreach and just had the local bishop over india and nepal come to share about the persecution there..Our pastor was just over there for two weeks encouraging them...It really broke him as he felt he was more encouraged from what they go through for their faith in Christ there..Man , I so easy go off track ..

As to the renewal it almost seem s to me the blaze has turned to mature coals that provide a bedwork of fire..It's not as flamy and noticeable but more of a established bed of coals that flame up in various place just waiting for it to be breathed on in the future if you can sorta get where I am coming from.. I know many strong secure believers who have weathered the storm so to say just waiting /preparing to come to life..I can't really explain things well but I think you can see where I am coming from...God has a remnant of coals that are just simmering in every tongue, tribe and nation.. The tares that are planted among us have no clue...peace to you..Kim

 

[Bartek]

It is natural natural direction of the charismatic renewal. And i don't worry about it. In Poland charismatic renewal was very popular in 80s and 90s. Now not so much, but most communities are today not so "pentecostal" like before. Most communities discovered how rich is the tradition of our Church. Charismatic renewal was something extraordinary, today it's just one of many elements of the Church's structur.
And should be.

 

[JoabAnias]

What has happened to the charismatic renewal ? I became involved in the charismatic renewal in the late 1970's and early 1980's. back then almost every catholic church had a charismatic prayer group, and they were large groups. I remember attending charismatic conferences in Philadelphia Pa. which boasted thousands of attendees. My wife and myself attended at least one prayer group a week, plus a young adult group once a month, which we traveled a great distance to attend. Now, it is the opposite; most parishes don't have a prayer group, and if they do, it is a very small group. What has happened ? I believe that this is the reason for their demise: Many times during charismatic prayer meetings, the Lord would speak to the people in prophecy. These were always beautiful words from the Lord. Every once in a while, someone would speak a prophetic message from the Lord, which conveyed a need for repentance . There were also sometimes specific messages pertaining to future events. When these type of prophetic messages were given, immediately, the "leaders" of the group would say, "that's not from the Lord", and thereby stifle the Holy Spirit. If it wasn't a message of "good news', they didn't want to hear it. Any messages of "doom and gloom" were in their opinion not from the Lord. So, the authorities in the church succeeded in stifling the Holy Spirit and the entire charismatic renewal, simply because they thought that they had all the answers and also the mind of God. I believe that the original intended purpose of the charismatic renewal in the Catholic church was to bring the people into a much deeper closer personal relationship with the Lord, and to spiritually prepare them for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Look what has happened today; the charismatic renewal has all but died out, and if anyone dares to speak about the second coming of the Lord, they are told that they need the gift of discernment. All I can say, with this kind of attitude, when the Lord does come, most people will be caught off guard and will not be ready to receive Him.

The biggest things that I have seen cause the disbanding of charismatic groups are spiritual pride and controlling prophesies and generally poor leadership.

When there is poor leadership where prophesies emerge that seek to control or instill fear in people or others begin to assert themselves as more spiritual than others then rivalries crop up and people cease to attend and I think rightly so.

I saw this several times toward the end of the millenia where some unfortunate hysteria occured. It caused the disbanding of two groups I am aware of and I think they should have. A third group that did survive moved its meetings into the Church chapel under the guidance of a Deacon but hasn't grown in size nevertheless and in which only one regular participant besides the Deacon can I see visible spiritual growth and fruits in the past eight years but the fellowship is still good. Its akin to an ultreaya meeting from which I have seen one person seek to become a Deacon after offering eucharistic services at nursing homes. Hope he made it all the way, I don't know the outcome because I moved. I think for it to actually grow it would be helpful for more clergy to be leading the meetings with a consistant format adding things such as benediction and littanies.

Peace.

 

[winsome]

I have come across prayer groups that are "post charismatic". They have lost it and a small remnant continues with only the shadow of being charismatic.

I think one of the biggest problems in this country is that the old guard of leaders have hung on too long. They have not passed on the fruits of their experience and have not brought on younger people. Where they are still operating, the Renewal still continues, but it has not been spread and built on as it should have been.

There is a missing generation in leadership. But there is now hope; a new much younger generation is emerging slowly - some of them trained elsewhere, and outside the control of the old guard.

 

[HisKid1973]

There is a missing generation in leadership. But there is now hope; a new much younger generation is emerging slowly - some of them trained elsewhere, and outside the control of the old guard.
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I think you are right on about that..I just having this feeling that alot of flesh and over zealousness gave some bad exposure..That is just from what I experienced...Just like some kids learning a new game just don't play it right.Also the next generation was getting so "me" centered and getiing more spiritually PC......Another sense is how spiritual growth sometimes skips a generation...What ever it is God knows and the Spirit moves divinely despite us. peace to you..Kim

Last but not least is that there is some "strange" prophets/strange ideas that best be avoided..

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Does anyone here sense, as I do that there is a lot of very profound wisdom coming out of this thread. We have at least 3 countries that I can see represented and many years in the Renewal.

One of the things I want to jump in on is the importance of the Pastoral Gifts in, at least, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. That was often missing in the old days. Priests were terribly busy after the changes that were brought on by the most recently closed Vatican II. Many were very shaken by the Charismatic Renewal. They saw it and had no clue how to deal with it. Didn't know for sure if it was of God or just pure emotionalism (or for many lol pute protestantism!!!YIKES!). The Prayer groups that had paricipation of clergy did thrive.
Before I got the cancer, I tried at my former parish to get a Prayer group started. Father approved it. I asked if he would participate in it to some degree. He told me that was not his cup of tea. I had this sudden and very loud "NO" in my spirit or head, whatever. I told him we could not have a Charismatic Prayer group without Pastoral involvement. However, after the cancer thing, when God instructed me to start a prayer group at a new Parish, he put not just one Priest there but 4 or 5 Priests and a Deacon. That is what I call abundance.
We have these Priests rotating doing our First Friday Charismatic Masses.
When God tells me he will open doors, he goes all the way.

 

[winsome]

Does anyone here sense, as I do that there is a lot of very profound wisdom coming out of this thread. We have at least 3 countries that I can see represented and many years in the Renewal.

One of the things I want to jump in on is the importance of the Pastoral Gifts in, at least, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. That was often missing in the old days. Priests were terribly busy after the changes that were brought on by the most recently closed Vatican II. Many were very shaken by the Charismatic Renewal. They saw it and had no clue how to deal with it. Didn't know for sure if it was of God or just pure emotionalism (or for many lol pute protestantism!!!YIKES!). The Prayer groups that had paricipation of clergy did thrive.
Before I got the cancer, I tried at my former parish to get a Prayer group started. Father approved it. I asked if he would participate in it to some degree. He told me that was not his cup of tea. I had this sudden and very loud "NO" in my spirit or head, whatever. I told him we could not have a Charismatic Prayer group without Pastoral involvement. However, after the cancer thing, when God instructed me to start a prayer group at a new Parish, he put not just one Priest there but 4 or 5 Priests and a Deacon. That is what I call abundance.
We have these Priests rotating doing our First Friday Charismatic Masses.
When God tells me he will open doors, he goes all the way.

There are several "renewal" movements that are affecting the life of the Church. I came back to the faith through Marriage Encounter and then into Charismatic Renewal. I am also involved in Cursillo. But with all these (and probably others) there is a common factor in that they awaken us to a deeper and more active Christian Life. Some serve the Lord in the parish, others in different ways.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

There are several "renewal" movements that are affecting the life of the Church. I came back to the faith through Marriage Encounter and then into Charismatic Renewal. I am also involved in Cursillo. But with all these (and probably others) there is a common factor in that they awaken us to a deeper and more active Christian Life. Some serve the Lord in the parish, others in different ways.

My husband and I are both products of Marriage Encounter, although I was Charismatic first. We have yet to make a Cursillo. Never too late. A few in our prayer group have made Cursillos, a few Marriage Encounters.
We have a few Charismatic babies in our core group who we are training. It is hard to sort out those who are teachable.

 

[hawko]

After the charismatic prayer groups dwindled in size in our area, I had already been spending time in adoration of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, so instead of going to a prayer meeting, I began to spend more time with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. This is where I feel He has led me to today. Recently, our parish started up a new charismatic prayer group.My wife and myself went there one time, but afterwards, we both felt that this was not were the Lord wanted us to be, so we never went back. Instead, we both continue with our devotion to our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

After the charismatic prayer groups dwindled in size in our area, I had already been spending time in adoration of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, so instead of going to a prayer meeting, I began to spend more time with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. This is where I feel He has led me to today. Recently, our parish started up a new charismatic prayer group.My wife and myself went there one time, but afterwards, we both felt that this was not were the Lord wanted us to be, so we never went back. Instead, we both continue with our devotion to our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

It seems that is where the Lord wants you.
I am wondering what is drawing you to this Forum.
We grow in many different areas in our lives and then bring them up for the building up of the Body of Christ.
Adoration is for our own edification. Where are you going to go with it?

 

[CatholicFlame]

Let me tell you what I see dawning in the Church. The charismatic renewal has opened up catholics to the possibility of using charismatic gifts. Also many have had a renewal of teh graces received through the scraments. We also have received the gift of praise and worship in a big way.

But these gifts are meant to foster a deeper renewal of what we have already received in teh sacraments. Escpecially the eucharist, which the church rightly terms the source and summit of our faith.

The next generation is becoming more fully catholic and charismatic, both together. The sacraments are becoming central to the renewal and now we are seeing huge growth like that of steubenville. Thousands of young people are being taught both solid catholic tradition and also the charismatic elements are there.

 

[CatholicFlame]

I think that Hawko and bartek are showing the truth of this. Catholics want to be both charismatic and catholic.