• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What happened from the creation of the universe to Abraham?

Aquaman196

Newbie
Sep 17, 2013
19
0
Unite States
✟15,129.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hi all,

I was wondering if any of you guys have any thoughts on what happened from the creation of the universe (big bang) up until Abraham.

For example, how did God first create life?
How did God choose what creation would inherit His wisdom?
Did God grant understanding of himself onto all homo-sapiens, a group of them, or did was there a literal Adam and Eve?

Not asking quite specifically these questions, but since the fall is not literal, what really happened between the creation of the universe and Abraham? I'm using Abraham since most monotheistic religions refer to him as the father of their religion.

I think that the way God created us is something that only God alone truly knows and it will one day be revealed to us, but was wondering what others think about origins.

Thanks! :wave:
 

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Dear Aquaman-

Welcome to the forums!

As an Evolutionary Creationist, I see God's full revelation as including his creation itself, which we can learn about through science. Revelation interperates Revelation, so all of God's Revelation is helpful in understanding how to interperate it.

This helps provide a tentative guide to your questions:

For example, how did God first create life?

God's revelation in his creation suggests that God did so using abiogenesis starting with replicating molecules, themselves the result of chemical reactions on the early earth, around 4 billion years ago.

How did God choose what creation would inherit His wisdom?

God knows, but Genesis suggests that it was related to the fact that we are in His image, which I take to mean his spritual image, not that God has a body like ours.

Did God grant understanding of himself onto all homo-sapiens, a group of them, or did was there a literal Adam and Eve?


A literal Adam and Even need not contradict our well known evolution from earlier primates (see post #8 here http://www.christianforums.com/t7786923/#post64475429), which is my view. However, it could work with a group too.


... since the fall is not literal, what really happened between the creation of the universe and Abraham?

Science has helped us see the details in the process metaphorically described in Genesis. Here is a nice 10 minute summary:

The History of the Universe in 10 Minutes - YouTube


and a 1 minute summary:


Our Story in 1 Minute - YouTube


I think that the way God created us is something that only God alone truly knows and it will one day be revealed to us, but was wondering what others think about origins.


I agree. In the same way, only God knows all the details of the US Civil War, like all the conversations between people, exactly how many died, etc - yet, we have a pretty good idea of the course of the war, the major events in it, etc. The same is true of the overall history shown in the videos above.



You are welcome!

May Christ be with you-

Papias
 
Upvote 0

granpa

Noahide/Rationalist
Apr 23, 2007
2,518
68
California
✟3,072.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Private
Hi all,

I was wondering if any of you guys have any thoughts on what happened from the creation of the universe (big bang) up until Abraham.

For example, how did God first create life?
How did God choose what creation would inherit His wisdom?
Did God grant understanding of himself onto all homo-sapiens, a group of them, or did was there a literal Adam and Eve?

Not asking quite specifically these questions, but since the fall is not literal, what really happened between the creation of the universe and Abraham? I'm using Abraham since most monotheistic religions refer to him as the father of their religion.

I think that the way God created us is something that only God alone truly knows and it will one day be revealed to us, but was wondering what others think about origins.

Thanks! :wave:

there are lots of Adams and lots of Abrahams on lots of worlds in lots of universes
 
Upvote 0

Aquaman196

Newbie
Sep 17, 2013
19
0
Unite States
✟15,129.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
A literal Adam and Even need not contradict our well known evolution from earlier primates, which is my view. However, it could work with a group too.

Hi Papias!

Thanks for responding, I agree with basically everything you have replied with. It's blows my mind that God went through such a long process to create His perfect beings and that he treasures us among all of His creation!

Referring to your post about Adam, are you saying that God granted Him a soul? Do you believe Eve was also granted a soul as well? What about the group that they lived in, did they not have souls or understanding of God? If so, wouldn't that imply that there were and still could be human civilizations that are soulless because they did not descend from Adam and Eve?

Thanks, Aquaman196
 
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
You are welcome!

My thoughts on your questions are below, but for all of these, Genesis is not explicit, so I don't think we can know with much certainty how exactly the soul played out back then. And because souls don't fossilize well, God may be the only one who knows for sure. That's OK, it's not a salvation issue anyway.

Aquaman wrote:
Referring to your post about Adam, are you saying that God granted Him a soul? Do you believe Eve was also granted a soul as well?

Yes, that would be my guess. I would guess that God gave Adam and Eve the first souls at the point that his creation reached humankind. Exactly what point that was, is of course speculation. Was that at the point of the Australopithicenes, about 2,000,000 years ago? Homo erectus, 1,000,000 years ago? Early Homo sapiens, 200,000 years ago? Later Homo sapiens 80,000 years ago? God knows.



What about the group that they lived in, did they not have souls or understanding of God?

That would be my guess - that their co-members did not have souls nor an understanding of God. Conversely, maybe God gave the whole group souls all at once? I tend to think not, becuase for one thing, that would mean giving a soul to an adult, and two, because I think Genesis fits better with a single Adam.



If so, wouldn't that imply that there were and still could be human civilizations that are soulless because they did not descend from Adam and Eve?

While there could be, I think the odds of that are extremely low. People interbreed, and move around, so if Adam was even as recent a few thousand years, his descendants would include everyone. The only exception to that is migrations to isolated places, like North America or Rapa Nui - and even those are too recent to be relevant. People forget that your family tree, my family tree, is not a line, but a huge (geometrically increasing) tree. We all have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 gg grandparents, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, etc. And that's only in going back a measly 300 years or so. Imagine doing that, doubling every 25 years, to go back several thousand years!

For instance:

Pharaoh Khufu is a single, historical, real person. Pharoah Khufu had many kids, back then in 2560 BC. Now, notice that when those kids have kids, all the grandkids are also descendants of Khufu, as are all the great grandkids, and so on. So even if the population is staying constant, the number of descendants of Khufu approximately doubles every generation (around 25 years). So by ~2360 BC, there were hundreds of Khufu descendants. By 2160, most of the population of the capital city were descendants of Khufu, and descendants of Khufu had begun to increase in numbers in other cities. By ~1500 BC, even conservative estimates would put most of the population of Egypt as descendants of Khufu, as well as numbers now in what is today Israel, Greece, Italy and so on. By 500 BC, the descendants of Khufu include nearly everyone around the Mediterranean, and by 500 AD, that includes much of Europe too.

By 1500 AD, practically all of Europe are Khufu descendants, and so you, myself and most of this on this board are Khufu descendants, and he only lived a few thousand years ago! So Adam, living well before 30,000 years ago, and perhaps as far back as 300,000 years ago or more, would of course be the direct ancestor of everyone alive today, especially if he lived in a humanoid population of transitional apes.


Papias
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aquaman196
Upvote 0