What gives?

[PapaLandShark]

I read through the material on the Reformed and Calvinism and I see very little that I can disagree with. Every question or issue I have is, soon enough, answered by my outside reading or the Bible itself.

So this thread is not to start an arguement but an effort to understand what are the major issues that people have with Reformed?

Admittedly I am quite young in my faith and have not examined more than a few Denom's...but point by point I find myself in agreement.

Peace to you.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Ah...perhaps not the right question to ask here then? If anyone wishes to PM me please feel free. If you would like this post removed please do request that it is.

Peace.

 

[Imblessed]

Papalandshark,

maybe it's just that we don't know how to answer you..... give it some time.

my experience with those not reformed or Calvinistic is that the issue they have with us basically goes back to TULIP. Many christians cannot bear to think that God predestined believers, and in fact they think it's blasphemous to claim it.

I think that's the core "problem" they have with reformed people, personally.


keep in mind also that one can be calvinistic and not reformed(such as myself). I'm not sure if you mean "only" reformed or if you are painting a broad brush and including those of use who are Calvinists but not reformed.....?

If you are speaking "only" of those who are reformed, I'm sadly unqualified to answer. I love my reformed brothers/sisters--so I don't want to answer for them and get something wrong!!!

 

[Tertiumquid]

So this thread is not to start an arguement but an effort to understand what are the major issues that people have with Reformed?

One thing Catholic, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, Arminians, Christian Scientists, (and every other religious group one can think of) all have in common is they stand united against Reformed theology. Makes one wonder doesn't it? How is it cultists, non-Christians, and even certain christian groups all agree that Calvinism is awful?

Well, my experience has been that folks come up with myriads of material against Reformed theology.

Some of it is silly, like Dave Hunt's book What Love Is This. Some of the criticism is exegetically awful, like Norm Geisler's Chosen But Free. Some books are so big they are unreadable, Like Vance's book The Other Side of Calvinism. And lastly, some books are totally confusing, like Olson's book, Beyond Arminianism and Calvinism. All of these books are fairly easy to track down.

In regard to web pages agaist Calvinism, they are plentiful, and easy to find. For a popular one, see George Bryson's on-line book: The Five Points Of Calvinism Weighed and Found Wanting at: http://calvarychapel.com/library/bryson%2Dgeorge/

Now I say go get all these books and evaluate their arguments. I have no doubt that if you study them closely, and persue the truth no matter where it leads, you will become Reformed in your theology.

Regards,
James Swan

 

[PapaLandShark]

Thank you. I appreciate the honesty and the references. We are commanded to seek are we not?

Peace to you.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Papalandshark,

maybe it's just that we don't know how to answer you..... give it some time.

my experience with those not reformed or Calvinistic is that the issue they have with us basically goes back to TULIP. Many christians cannot bear to think that God predestined believers, and in fact they think it's blasphemous to claim it.

I think that's the core "problem" they have with reformed people, personally.


keep in mind also that one can be calvinistic and not reformed(such as myself). I'm not sure if you mean "only" reformed or if you are painting a broad brush and including those of use who are Calvinists but not reformed.....?

If you are speaking "only" of those who are reformed, I'm sadly unqualified to answer. I love my reformed brothers/sisters--so I don't want to answer for them and get something wrong!!!

I find it difficult to understand how predestination can be blasphemous...But then predestination is not easy to wrap your head around for a multitude of reasons.

I'm afraid that I must be painting with a large brush here as I had no idea one could be Calvinist and not Reformed.

I find TULIP uncomfortable in some respects but that does not make it untrue. It is my belief that if Faith is comfortable then there is something decidedly wrong. Comforting yes...but not comfortable if that makes sense.

Thank you for your response.

 

[5solas]

my experience with those not reformed or Calvinistic is that the issue they have with us basically goes back to TULIP.

... and the 5 solas; have a look at my signature

 

[PapaLandShark]

... and the 5 solas; have a look at my signature

Ah...Latin. Sadly the year I went to High School they cut the teaching of it. Reformationist warned me about you bookworms Off to go look them up I go...

Thanks!

 

[Elect]

I read through the material on the Reformed and Calvinism and I see very little that I can disagree with. Every question or issue I have is, soon enough, answered by my outside reading or the Bible itself.

So this thread is not to start an arguement but an effort to understand what are the major issues that people have with Reformed?

Admittedly I am quite young in my faith and have not examined more than a few Denom's...but point by point I find myself in agreement.

Peace to you.

The Doctrines of Grace are offensive to the human mind. It takes everything away from the sinner. It makes the sinner so totally dependent on God for everything. Man is a fallen creature and is spiritually dead and does not seek God and is a God hater and will not come to the Light. It takes a work of God for the sinner to come to the Light. Most Christians believe this.

However, after debating or talking with people that believe that the Doctrines of Grace is heresy, I believe that the two things that seemed to be the most objectable to them are that man's will is not free and that God is not trying to save everyone. They think that God gave man a free will and even if He did how can the will be free after the fall and not a slave to sin. The thought that God just chose some to salvation and by-passed others is just unthinkable. They say God is love and He is loving everyone. God is not loving everyone with that amazing grace Love that saves. They will admit that God is not obligated to save any, yet if He saves one, then they say that He is obligated to attempt to save all. Don't figure.

That's my experience.

 

[Imblessed]

... and the 5 solas; have a look at my signature

yes, there is that also! Ahhh, to have to become like a Berean and diligently compare everything against scripture......to hard for some I'm afraid......

 

[PapaLandShark]

I give...Off to study.

Peace,
--Papa