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Elohim is the majestic plural and it can rightly be translated as "God" (capital 'G') but the KJV (or any other translation) could have translated it as "gods" as it would be true to the original text. My contention is not that "heaven" singular is better than "heavens" plural (or the other way around) it's that this is the exact same word, use in the exact same context but translated differently with no apparent reason or motivation to do so, only that it was in error, probably just missed.So is "God" in Genesis 1:1 yet nobody translates that as "the gods".
The biggest error in the KJV is the replacement of Yahweh (Hebrew: יהוה) with "the LORD" and "GOD" over 6000 times.
The places I'm aware of where they actually did transliterate His Name:
Genesis 22:14
Exodus 6:3
Exodus 17:15
Judges 6:24
Psalms 83:18
Isaiah 12:2
Isaiah 26:4
It's an intentionally blatant error.
One of the guys in my Bible Study said that the demons rule the second heaven. That's why I asked the question. I never heard that before, and don't know exactly where in the Bible it says anything close. But I thought maybe that verse in Ephesians...
Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":
See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today
I am little surprised the KJV Only crowd hasn't descended on this post. While I am no textual expert, a goodly amount of the so called errors are reflecting the differences between the Septuagint (LXX) and the Masoretic text of the Old Testament. Another thing to keep in mind, there are differences between versions of the LXX also. If there was a disputed text the KJV translators generally went with the traditional rendering since the KJV is actually a revision of the Bishops Bible, which was a revision of the Great Bible, which includes much of Tyndale's translation.
The KJV is a fine translation although the language is a bit dated. For example:
2Co 6:12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. (KJV)
2Co 6:12 You are not restrained by us, but you are restrained in your own affections. (NASB)
There are many areas like this where the obsolete usage of a words gets in the meaning of the text. If you want a good edition of the KJV, Trinitarian Bible Society publishes a reference bible with helps in the margins if a word has changed meaning. I would also say if one wants to tackle reading the KJV, try reading it aloud. That's where I believe the translation really shines. However, let me be clear, while I personally read the KJV, and it is the translation my church uses liturgically, I do not believe that it is an inspired translation as the KJV only crowd asserts. Only the autographs are inspired. If one struggles with the English of the KJV, then obtain a bible you can understand. It makes no sense to read a translation where the reader has to translate themselves in order to understand.
Actually I think the KJV got this one right. The term translated 'in the midst of' in the NASB and 'within them' is (H7130 קֶרֶב qereb):Outside the number of horsemen David acquired (either 700 KJV, 1700 Tanakh/Septuigent/NASB, or 7000 NIV) when comparing the same verse in 2 Samuel 8:4, the most disturbing one I found was Isaiah 63:11
NKJV
Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
KJV has the same misleading wording.
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses.
Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
The cloud of smoke and the pillar of fire were not inside them, but in the midst of them.
I asked one of my Professors at NBC about this one, he got absolutely livid. I was under the impression that no one really knew if it was Jehovah or Yehweh, because the original has no vowels. Boy was I ever wrong, he was convinced that Jehovah was constructed from Adonai. Bottom line, he said there was never any such word.It's the same but more "English."
The Hebrew or Aramaic "ye" sounding is sounded "je" in English. That is why you see some renderings as "Yehova."
Bible versions which use Jehovah, YHWH or Yahweh are:
Lexham English Bible
Youngs Literal Translation
World English Bible
American Standard Version
Darby Translation
Names of God Bible
All of the above may be accessed at Biblegateway.com with various copyright restrictions. Meaning if we cut and paste the verses from certain versions we have to abide by the copyright.
The NOG really gets to the detail for example here:
Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - Names of God Bible
The article suggests that 1:1 "heavens" is a majestic plural so is translated simply as "heaven". This is not true because majestic plurals are not objects of creations from majestics plurals. There is only one majestic plural in the text; Elohim is the majestic plural not what he creates. The text is not "In the beginning [majestic plural] created the [majestic plural] and the [non-majestic singular]"
If the KJV interpreted this 1:1 "heaven" as a majestic plural it would be translated with a capital letter as Elohim is translated as "God" not "god". So the text would be "...God created the Heaven and the earth..." Also if heaven is a majestic plural then what is being suggested here? that "heaven" is a god or that it demands a higher respect over all other creation that is at the same level as God himself? We use the word "heaven" often as a spiritual dwelling place for God but the text doesn't suggest this as the text is clear that God himself clearly dwells and pre-exists outside of his creation.
Hebrew is an extremely concrete language and what the word concretely means is simply "skies" and basically the text is showing that God created everything that is land and everything that is not land contrasting "skies" and "land" together; these words are used to show God created it all.
1:1 "heaven" and 2:1 "heaven" is the exact same word used in the exact same context and is translated differently. If 1:1 is a majestic plural than 2:1 is a majestic plural too. This is most likely an error that was overlooked, perhaps only in consistency, but an error nonetheless.
Here is the text again:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.....Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
The text opens the creation account, then closes it using the exact same words and it should be translated the same way.
I found this:Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":
See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today
I found this:
Easter: Mistranslated "Easter" in Act 12:4, AV, denotes the Passover (RV). The phrase "after the Passover" signifies after the whole festival was at an end. The term "Easter" is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast, but was not instituted by Christ, nor was it connected with Lent. From this Pasch the pagan festival of "Easter" was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity. (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)The major events of Christ's birth, death, burial and resurrection all happened during the fall feasts. Easter is in the spring and Christmas is in the winter, there is no biblical basis for these holidays.
I asked one of my Professors at NBC about this one, he got absolutely livid. I was under the impression that no one really knew if it was Jehovah or Yehweh, because the original has no vowels. Boy was I ever wrong, he was convinced that Jehovah was constructed from Adonai. Bottom line, he said there was never any such word.
Grace and peace,
Mark
Well, no. This isn't an error, but following an historic tradition that goes back to centuries before Christ. The LXX likewise doesn't use YHVH, but kurios, even as the New Testament does. This is retained in translations of Scripture since the beginning of Christianity--in Greek, Latin, Syriac, Coptic. This isn't an error, it's an intentional choice.
It would also be wrong to use "Yahweh" since we have no idea how YHVH is pronounced, the historic pronunciation is lost to us; whereas the pronunciation of other Hebrew words is retained because of their continued use and, ultimately, preserved with the development of niqqud by the Masoretes; niqqud are "vowel marks" which aid in pronunciation of words, since Hebrew writing is an abjad, a consonant-only writing system. The pronunciation of יהוה was not preserved, because it wasn't in regular use among Jews, even in Jesus' time the Tetragrammaton was really only used and spoken by the high priest when serving in the Most Holy Place of the Temple. That's Jews have, since before the time of Jesus, used Adonai or other substitution words in regular practice, such as HaShem ("the Name"). This practice predates Jesus, was present in Jesus' time, and has continued in Judaism even into the present day. In fact observant Jews will often not even write out "Lord" and "God" but instead write out "L-rd" and "G-d" in order to ensure proper reverence is paid to the Deity.
Maybe the pronunciation was "Yahweh", but we don't know. The Samaritans, who still have an active priesthood, who though sharing the same stigma about casually saying the Tetragrammaton, say it as Yahwa, though Theodoret from the 5th century says it is Iabe (Greek letters, probably corresponding to something like Yahve).
Insisting on "Yahweh" is simply not correct. If one is dead set on preserving a transliteration here, then the most honest thing would be to simply provide the Tetragrammaton as-is: YHVH or YHWH. A translation that uses "Yahweh" isn't something I have a problem with, but it would be entirely wrong to say it is correct, it is merely an approximation based on educated guesswork.
-CryptoLutheran
Well part of the problem is that the ancient Hebrews, modern Hebrews for that matter, so the name of God so sacred they were afraid to say it or even write it except in prayer. We should be so reverent. Anyway, we have close to 99% of the originals, the manuscripts represent the best preserved documents from antiquity. I like the KJV 1679 not just because I think it's very good with an amazing legacy, but because the Strong's numbers are keyed to it. Modern translations deprecate the Byzantine text in effect, giving preference to Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, I honestly don't agree with that. Modern Christian exegesis involved with translation are less then stellar, I like and use modern translations but I still think textus receptus is an excellent source. This was the source for Wycliffe, Tyndale, the Geneva Bible and our beloved King James bible.The problem is...
We don’t have a time machine to confirm which MS documents are fake or true. Some may not be in existence or they may be lost and hidden somewhere. The only way to test to see there is a perfect Word of God is by doing a fruits test on which most relatively recent documents that represent the Holy Scriptures in the world language that exists today. The 1769 KJV is the only one that works. For it has proven itself to be divine on countless occasions.
Outside the number of horsemen David acquired (either 700 KJV, 1700 Tanakh/Septuigent/NASB, or 7000 NIV) when comparing the same verse in 2 Samuel 8:4, the most disturbing one I found was Isaiah 63:11
NKJV
Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
KJV has the same misleading wording.
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses.
Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
The cloud of smoke and the pillar of fire were not inside them, but in the midst of them.
Well part of the problem is that the ancient Hebrews, modern Hebrews for that matter, so the name of God so sacred they were afraid to say it or even write it except in prayer. We should be so reverent. Anyway, we have close to 99% of the originals, the manuscripts represent the best preserved documents from antiquity. I like the KJV 1679 not just because I think it's very good with an amazing legacy, but because the Strong's numbers are keyed to it. Modern translations deprecate the Byzantine text in effect, giving preference to Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, I honestly don't agree with that. Modern Christian exegesis involved with translation are less then stellar, I like and use modern translations but I still think textus receptus is an excellent source. This was the source for Wycliffe, Tyndale, the Geneva Bible and our beloved King James bible.
What do you guys think of "Jehovah"?
Skeptics will always try to 'prove' they have wisely discovered errors and contradictions in various translations of the Bible. I contend that these "errors" are actually in man, not Scripture (see my book: UCanKnowTheTruth.com ).
The biggest problem with the ever-specious, "errors and contradictions" thinking (and 'KJV only') is that it undermines one's belief any other part of Scripture.
Other variants: "I believe the words of Jesus, but, not the writings of Paul," "The New Testament is credible, but, I don't believe the Old Testament is true," "The Bible is filled with metaphors, parables and other - and is not intended to be taken literally" ... etc., etc.
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