What Eph 2:12 is saying ??

[dan p]

Hi to all , and Ephesians is just filled with Pauline Doctrine ,and these is just some of what is found in Eph 2:12 !!

In verse 11 , the Holy Spirit says through Paul , " REMEBER/MNEMONRUD , which is in the Present Tense , Active Voice and in the Imperative mood of COMMAND , pay attention and Remember , that you were once Gentiles .


Gentiles were set aside before Abram , in Rom 1:18-32 !!


In verse 12 , " YE WERE " is in the Greek Imperfect Tense which means that when the Gentiles were set aside in Genesis ( revealed in Rom 1 :24 ) it was Continous Action in Past Time , Until the Crosss .

Then in verse 12 " HAVING BEEN ALIENATED FROM " the commanwealth of Israel " .

Having been alienated is in the Greek Perfect Tense , which means the Post and Past Action of the cross ,!!

Then because of the cross , which is the Past Action , by the death of Christ and the Passive Voice means that Jesus did the dying and the Action and it is a God salvation and NOT a man salvation .

This means OSAS , since it is God that is ding the dyi9ng !!


The Perfect Tense means that Jesus will never be required to die for sins ever again , as He died for sins Past , Present and Future .

The Perfect tense here HAD a beginning , " the Cross " ,

NOT at Genesis !!

But , techincally , Slain OR counted as Slain !!


But , where are the Covenants , there are NONE !!

DISPENSATIONS Yes , and this means that the Body of Christ was " HID " in God , Col 1:26 , from Ages and Generations , but NOW ( Now is Emphatic ) to His saints .

The Emphatic NOW , does not means in Genesis , but reveald as Paul was writing , dan p

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi to all , and Ephesians is just filled with Pauline Doctrine ,and these is just some of what is found in Eph 2:12 !!

Ephesians 2:12
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Dan, this was also explained to you a few days ago, and you keep coming back filling its meaning with nonsense.

You are funny (kind of), saying that this passage is filled with Pauline doctrine...he wrote it, so what do you expect. The first problem here is that you seem to be saying that Paul wrote his own doctrine, and that means that you think Peter wrote his own doctrine, and James wrote his own, John wrote his own, etc. In this you do err greatly.

Paul is talking to Gentiles...who were at one time (before the institution of the New Covenant) separated from God and from His promises and covenants. At that time they had no hope of eternal life, but now because of the NC, we do. That is what this passage is saying, you would be wise to forget this stuff that you have been saying. I don't know where you are getting it from, but not from scripture.

 

[dan p]

Ephesians 2:12
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Dan, this was also explained to you a few days ago, and you keep coming back filling its meaning with nonsense.

You are funny (kind of), saying that this passage is filled with Pauline doctrine...he wrote it, so what do you expect. The first problem here is that you seem to be saying that Paul wrote his own doctrine, and that means that you think Peter wrote his own doctrine, and James wrote his own, John wrote his own, etc. In this you do err greatly.

Paul is talking to Gentiles...who were at one time (before the institution of the New Covenant) separated from God and from His promises and covenants. At that time they had no hope of eternal life, but now because of the NC, we do. That is what this passage is saying, you would be wise to forget this stuff that you have been saying. I don't know where you are getting it from, but not from scripture.

Hi , and first of all , all these different writers wrote about their HOPE .

The HOPE of the 12 was the NEW , DAVIDIC , PALEATINNIAN and ABRAHAMIC Covenant that are and EARTHLY HOPE .

Paul's HOPE was a HEAVENLY HOPE , Eph 1:3 for the Body of Christ !!

I believe that when you said I was correct in the Imperfecr and Prefect Tense , you really do not nderstand the Tenses at all AND anyone would see that GENTILES never had a Covenant as it says " ye were " without Christ , looking back to the Continuous Past ( the Imperfect Tense ) and then the Perfect tense ( AT the Cross ) since here the Old Covenant ENDED at Acts 28:28 and the Continuous Results of the Perfect Tense continue on till the " FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in " Rom 11:25 ,

dan p

 

[WailingWall]

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

 

[dan p]

Ephesians 2:12
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Dan, this was also explained to you a few days ago, and you keep coming back filling its meaning with nonsense.

You are funny (kind of), saying that this passage is filled with Pauline doctrine...he wrote it, so what do you expect. The first problem here is that you seem to be saying that Paul wrote his own doctrine, and that means that you think Peter wrote his own doctrine, and James wrote his own, John wrote his own, etc. In this you do err greatly.

Paul is talking to Gentiles...who were at one time (before the institution of the New Covenant) separated from God and from His promises and covenants. At that time they had no hope of eternal life, but now because of the NC, we do. That is what this passage is saying, you would be wise to forget this stuff that you have been saying. I don't know where you are getting it from, but not from scripture.

Hi , and just when was the New Covenant instutited and verse please ??

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi , and just when was the New Covenant instutited and verse please ??

Dan, if you have any idea how to read scripture, and any idea of how covenants are initiated and how they work, you would know that the covenant was initiated when Christ rose from the dead.

You are not inspiring very much confidence in your ability to properly interpret the scriptures.

Good luck.

 

[dan p]

Dan, if you have any idea how to read scripture, and any idea of how covenants are initiated and how they work, you would know that the covenant was initiated when Christ rose from the dead.

You are not inspiring very much confidence in your ability to properly interpret the scriptures.

Good luck.

Hi , and answer to " ye were " in the Imperfect Tense and " being Aliens " the perfect , why not answer these 2 tenses , especially since you have already said that they are correcte ??

dan p

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi , and first of all , all these different writers wrote about their HOPE .

The HOPE of the 12 was the NEW , DAVIDIC , PALEATINNIAN and ABRAHAMIC Covenant that are and EARTHLY HOPE .

Paul's HOPE was a HEAVENLY HOPE , Eph 1:3 for the Body of Christ !!

What are you talking about??? You are not making any sense here.

anyone would see that GENTILES never had a Covenant as it says " ye were " without Christ , looking back to the Continuous Past ( the Imperfect Tense ) and then the Perfect tense ( AT the Cross ) since here the Old Covenant ENDED at Acts 28:28 and the Continuous Results of the Perfect Tense continue on till the " FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in " Rom 11:25 ,

First, you do not comprehend what you are talking about, and I do understand tenses, but you do not understand how to properly and hermeneutically study the scriptures.

Second, we have already established that there was no covenant in the past specifically directed at Gentiles, so why you keep bringing it up is beyond anyone but you. The Covenant was made to Israel, and the Gentile believer can be grafted into the Vine (Christ) through faith and adherence to the Covenant obligations, just like believing Jews can be.

Third, having little to no understanding of the New Covenant, you assign an erroneous time for the inauguration of the New and the end of the Old. The Old ended as soon as the New began, and the New Covenant began from the Resurrection of Christ.

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi , and answer to " ye were " in the Imperfect Tense and " being Aliens " the perfect , why not answer these 2 tenses , especially since you have already said that they are correcte ??

dan p

What? I can't answer a tense.

Whatever is in your mind that seems to you to make what I have told you incorrect because of the tense of a verb or two...is only in your mind. The tenses of these two words do not change what scripture teaches.

 

[JLB777]

Hi , and just when was the New Covenant instutited and verse please ??

As you requested -

"Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." 5 Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: 6 "I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, Isaiah 42:1-6


The New Messianic Covenant, unlike the Covenant whereby God took the children of Israel by the hand and led them out of Egypt, the covenant that they continually broke.

This new covenant shall be that MESSIAH IS OUR COVENANT!

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:28

The Apostle John said it this way -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

John is dealing with the prophecy of Jeremiah 31, where the language says:

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

In The New Covenant Christ Jesus has been given Himself as the Covenant,
therefore we are "in" Him, for we are "in" covenant with Him, so as to know Him. We are now called sons of God and joint heirs.

He is our Covenant!
He is our rest!
He is our righteousness!
He is our peace!
He is our Life!

In Him we live and move and have our being!

JLB

 

[James4_14]

It is with clarity that a new dispensation began at Acts 28:28. Ephesians 2:12 is showing that the Gentiles are brought up to the same plane as Israel. The Jew is no longer first nor a chosen nation. They cannot be on an even par with Gentiles and be "first" at the same time.
As a result of Acts 28:28 they are Lo-Ammi (Hosea 1:9)

The Lord had two ministries on the Cross and the ministry of reconciliation (2 Cor 5:19) allowed for the Gentiles to "move up" at this critical juncture.

 

[JLB777]

It is with clarity that a new dispensation began at Acts 28:28. Ephesians 2:12 is showing that the Gentiles are brought up to the same plane as Israel. The Jew is no longer first nor a chosen nation. They cannot be on an even par with Gentiles and be "first" at the same time.
As a result of Acts 28:28 they are Lo-Ammi (Hosea 1:9)

The Lord had two ministries on the Cross and the ministry of reconciliation (2 Cor 5:19) allowed for the Gentiles to "move up" at this critical juncture.

You seem to be inferring that this scripture was a defining line in History whereby the Gospel message would no longer be for the Jews.

28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"


If that is your position, you couldn't be anymore wrong!


JLB

 

[James4_14]

You seem to be inferring that this scripture was a defining line in History whereby the Gospel message would no longer be for the Jews.

28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"


If that is your position, you couldn't be anymore wrong!


JLB

Please, please, please....read it again. There was no indication I inferred any such thing.

These "Gentiles" are not the Gentiles of Romans 11. Romans 11 has Israel in view as being "first" above the Gentiles. Ephesians has them on the same plane. "Ethnos" is....NATIONS ...and Israel, for the time being, is numbered among the nations. God WILL turn back to them in the future once our calling is manifested to Heaven.

 

[JLB777]

Please, please, please....read it again. There was no indication I inferred any such thing.

These "Gentiles" are not the Gentiles of Romans 11. Romans 11 has Israel in view as being "first" above the Gentiles. Ephesians has them on the same plane. "Ethnos" is....NATIONS ...and Israel, for the time being, is numbered among the nations. God WILL turn back to them in the future once our calling is manifested to Heaven.

I read it again, it still says the same thing.

It is with clarity that a new dispensation began at Acts 28:28.

To me, that means you are saying a "new dispensation" started after Acts 28:28, as if that is some line in the sand and "now" at that point the Gospel wil now go to the Gentiles.

Maybe you should define dispensation.


JLB

 

[James4_14]

I read it again, it still says the same thing.
To me, that means you are saying a "new dispensation" started after Acts 28:28, as if that is some line in the sand and "now" at that point the Gospel wil now go to the Gentiles.
Maybe you should define dispensation.
JLB

Here is the Mystery:
***Eph 3:5-6
5 Which in other ages was notmade knownunto the sons of men, as it is now (AD 63...close enough) revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That (the subject of the revelation is) the Gentiles should befellowheirs(joint-heirs..Gr. sunkleronomos),and of the same body(members of a joint body….Gr. sussomos [only here]…..and NOT joined to an existing Jewish body but of twain…..ONE…..NEW…..MAN!),and (joint-)partakers (Gr. Summetochos…joint partakers) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That is a three-fold equality now never before known. Israel was divorced….Lo-Ammi (Hosea 1:9)… at Acts 28:28 and distinctions are wiped out! There are just believers and unbelievers today.


***Eph 2:12-16
12 That at that time ye (Gentiles)were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 Butnowin Christ Jesus ye (Gentiles) who sometimes (once)were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath madeboth (Jew and Gentile)….one, ....and hath broken down the middle wall of partition (death to any Gentile that passed this stone barrier) between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh (His death) the enmity, even the law of (dogmatic) commandments contained in ordinances; for to make (Gr. poiema-CREATE) in himself of twain (of the two…Jew and Gentile)….. one….new…. man,….so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both (Jew and Gentile) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity (of the law of dogmatic commandments) thereby (by the cross):


***2 Cor 5:17….old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The relationship is like a new heaven and new Earth.

 

[JLB777]

Here is the Mystery:
***Eph 3:5-6
5 Which in other ages was notmade knownunto the sons of men, as it is now(AD 63...close enough) revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That(the subject of the revelation is) the Gentiles should befellowheirs(joint-heirs..Gr. sunkleronomos),and of the same body(members of a joint body….Gr. sussomos [only here]…..and NOT joined to an existing Jewish body but of twain…..ONE…..NEW…..MAN!),and (joint-)partakers (Gr. Summetochos…joint partakers) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That is a three-fold equality now never before known. Israel was divorced….Lo-Ammi (Hosea 1:9)… at Acts 28:28 and distinctions are wiped out! There are just believers and unbelievers today.


***Eph 2:12-16
12 That atthat time ye (Gentiles)were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 Butnowin Christ Jesus ye (Gentiles) who sometimes (once)were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath madeboth(Jew and Gentile)….one, ....and hath broken down the middle wall of partition(death to any Gentile that passed this stone barrier) between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh (His death) the enmity, even the law of (dogmatic) commandments contained in ordinances; for to make(Gr. poiema-CREATE) in himself of twain (of the two…Jew and Gentile)….. one….new…. man,….so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both(Jew and Gentile) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity (of the law of dogmatic commandments) thereby (by the cross):


***2 Cor 5:17….old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The relationship is like a new heaven and new Earth.

Sound like Replacement Theology to me!


JLB

 

[James4_14]

Sound like Replacement Theology to me!


JLB

Not so. Replacement theology denies all the promises to Israel and therefore denies the Truth:
***Rom 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

It is disengenuous to take the promises and spiritualize said promises and apply them to the church today. Israel IS a church. They stand on their own promises.

Not yet!
***Gen 13:14-15
14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Without dispensational distinctions study has no value.