What does this mean?

[AmandaLynn1288]

I was reading my bible last night, and I came across this story. I don't understand it at all... I don't understand what Jesus is telling the lady, and how she showed great faith. If you have any ideas, please let me know!


Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”
23 But He answered her not a word.
And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”
26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

 

[Psalms34]

She was a Gentile. The ministry to be open to the Gentiles had not yet come.

 

[whateveristrue]

Gentiles and Jews generally didn't associate with each other. Yet this woman believed that Jesus was indeed GOD, and that He had the power to heal her daughter.

 

[freyajem]

This was when Jesus realized that He had come to save Gentiles as well as Jews. The woman was a Gentile and He wasn't about to care for her daughter.

 

[Psalms34]

This was when Jesus realized that He had come to save Gentiles as well as Jews. The woman was a Gentile and He wasn't about to care for her daughter.

Actually, He already knew His purpose and the extent of His ministry, but there was no Church yet to add Gentiles to. He came to the house of Israel, to be rejected and put to death, to resurrect on the third day and then build the Church consisting of Jews and Gentiles at that point. The accounts of the gospels are directed to the ministry of the Jews, that is to whom he had promised to come to (hence the remark about the crumbs and dogs). Once rejected, this opened up the ministry to be offered to the Gentiles as well as to the existing believing Jews and to those that would come later.

 

[freyajem]

Actually, He already knew His purpose and the extent of His ministry, but there was no Church yet to add Gentiles to. He came to the house of Israel, to be rejected and put to death, to resurrect on the third day and then build the Church consisting of Jews and Gentiles at that point. The accounts of the gospels are directed to the ministry of the Jews, that is to whom he had promised to come to (hence the remark about the crumbs and dogs). Once rejected, this opened up the ministry to be offered to the Gentiles as well as to the existing believing Jews and to those that would come later.

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

These were the Jews were they not?

 

[Psalms34]

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

These were the Jews were they not?

That is correct, He was sent to the house of Israel. After He was rejected, the gospel was then proclaimed to the Gentiles. So when He says “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” He is saying in effect that His ministry is not to the Gentiles [at that time]. The bread of the Children is the proclamation to Israel of his Coming and the dog is the Gentiles. But she believed in Him, how could He deny a response to such faith from even a Gentile? Though He was not there to proclaim to the Gentiles that the Messiah had come for the Jews, He still recognized the Gentiles and I’m sure looked forward to when the Church would be in such fruitful abundance from all peoples of the world. Wasn’t time yet though.

He knew this though, it was not really something He realized, He was/is a master of scripture and of written prophecy, after all He wrote it in the beginning He is the author of the Law, prophecy and everything else contained there in. It all came from Him directly and men wrote it down over the eons.

 

[freyajem]

That is correct, He was sent to the house of Israel. After He was rejected, the gospel was then proclaimed to the Gentiles. So when He says “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” He is saying in effect that His ministry is not to the Gentiles [at that time]. The bread of the Children is the proclamation to Israel of his Coming and the dog is the Gentiles. But she believed in Him, how could He deny a response to such faith from even a Gentile? Though He was not there to proclaim to the Gentiles that the Messiah had come for the Jews, He still recognized the Gentiles and I’m sure looked forward to when the Church would be in such fruitful abundance from all peoples of the world. Wasn’t time yet though.

He knew this though, it was not really something He realized, He was/is a master of scripture and of written prophecy, after all He wrote it in the beginning He is the author of the Law, prophecy and everything else contained there in. It all came from Him directly and men wrote it down over the eons.

So why did you tell me I was wrong"? Just a question.

 

[Psalms34]

So why did you tell me I was wrong"? Just a question.

I didn’t disagree with it exactly, where did I say it was wrong? just the wording of it being ‘realized’ as if He had not known. It sort of suggests that his ministry started with the Gentiles at that moment, but that was yet to come and He knew it from the beginning. Though he healed her daughter, the message was not to her but to Israel alone, but she believed He could heal her and I presume she knew who He was yet while many of those that He came to didn’t. The rest I just elaborated on.

 

[traderdave]

I like the fact that she, being Canaanite, knew He was the Son of David. She had talked to someone to figure out what that meant, and had BELIEVED in Him. She also knew that He could heal her daughter. I also like that she was persistent with the Lord. She must have been confident that He would do something for her even though His initial comments didn't reveal that.

 

[freyajem]

I didn’t disagree with it exactly, where did I say it was wrong? just the wording of it being ‘realized’ as if He had not known. It sort of suggests that his ministry started with the Gentiles at that moment, but that was yet to come and He knew it from the beginning. Though he healed her daughter, the message was not to her but to Israel alone, but she believed He could heal her and I presume she knew who He was yet while many of those that He came to didn’t. The rest I just elaborated on.

Jesus was fully human and as such would not necessarily know exactly everything that was to happen until it did. My comment was correct.

 

[AmandaLynn1288]

Thanks you guys!! That makes so much more sense now! Ya'll are awesome!! God bless!!

 

[MaidforHim]

Jesus knew he had also come to save the gentiles, He's the Son of God and knows all things, but the time to reach out to them had not yet come.

Still you'll see gentiles coming to Him, with faith stronger than some of those that traveled with Him.

In my eyes this is one of the main points. Even though she did not know prophecy, or scripture she had a strong faith and many of those that did know prophecy and scripture were lacking that faith.

It was her blind faith that was so impressive and I think Jesus was using this as an example for His those with Him to see.

 

[mont974x4]

I beleive Christ, even in His humanity, knew all things because He is God and has always been God. However, He was still subject to plans of the Father.

Does my finite mind fully grasp how all that is possible? Nope, but I know God is soveriegn always and forever never changing holy, just, righteous and some things are to remain a mystery for now as they are not essential for me to fully grasp at this time. I beleive this to be an issue of faith.


Faith, which this woman showed despite not being a Jew and Christ showed grace and mercy to her just as He shows it to us...even tho we do not deserve it.


Praise Him and thank Him that He justifies us.


Thank God He is faithful to give us what He knows we need and not what we think we need.

 

[freyajem]

I beleive Christ, even in His humanity, knew all things because He is God and has always been God. However, He was still subject to plans of the Father.

Does my finite mind fully grasp how all that is possible? Nope, but I know God is soveriegn always and forever never changing holy, just, righteous and some things are to remain a mystery for now as they are not essential for me to fully grasp at this time. I beleive this to be an issue of faith.

I believe that Christ was fully man and fully God. I believe He was born a baby with the knowledge of a baby, as a fully man. Somewhere in the bible I remember reading that Mary had to encourage Him to do what He was born to do.

If He was fully man, then He could not know everything. If He knew everything, then He was not fully man. But I am positive that He was fully open to the fully God working in Him. He lived for 33 years before beginning(beginning)to fulfill His being fully God.

Sometimes, I think we are a little too quick to make Jesus fully knowing and acting God at birth. That would deny a child born fully human.


Faith, which this woman showed despite not being a Jew and Christ showed grace and mercy to her just as He shows it to us...even tho we do not deserve it.


Praise Him and thank Him that He justifies us.


Thank God He is faithful to give us what He knows we need and not what we think we need.

sorry but I couldn't move my reply

 

[mont974x4]

IMO, we need to accept that He was both fully God and fully man. To seperate them would weaken His divinity.

 

[freyajem]

IMO, we need to accept that He was both fully God and fully man. To seperate them would weaken His divinity.

I wasn't separating them at all. He was fully man and fully God. But He had to be born fully man in order to fulfill the prophecy of being fully man. Being fully God could be within Him without His fully human ability knowledge. He would have had a fully human childhool with all the things we have as a child.

It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

 

[Psalms34]

Jesus was fully human and as such would not necessarily know exactly everything that was to happen until it did. My comment was correct.

Sure He was fully human, that was His tent, but He is fully God as well. Even when He was a little child He knew all things of the scriptures, He was missing from his parents for three days while He dazzled the rabbi’s in the temple with His vast knowledge. So yes then, I guess we disagree on the point of realization, I see Him as retaining such knowledge upon His incarnation and fully knowing this throughout His life and into His ministry.


Edit in since another post went up:

It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

*needs to think/type/post faster* heh
I tend to agree with mont on this as you see.

 

[mont974x4]

Faith Warrior, exactly.


EDIT: I suspect we're all not as far off from eachothers understanding as it appears. LOL Probably just a matter of expressing it better.

 

[MaidforHim]

I wasn't separating them at all. He was fully man and fully God. But He had to be born fully man in order to fulfill the prophecy of being fully man. Being fully God could be within Him without His fully human ability knowledge. He would have had a fully human childhool with all the things we have as a child.

It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

I've never heard a verse that suggested that Jesus' divine abilities were limited due to His flesh.

He was fully human and fully God all at the same time. His ways are not our ways and it's OK if that seems impossible to us.

He got hungry and tired like a man and yet could walk on water or calm a storm with a word.

He new Zacchaeus' name before met him. In John 1 He saw Nathaniel under the fig tree before they ever met and Nathaniel was amazed. He knew the woman at the well's sorted past and that she'd be at the well.

Jesus Christ had foreknowledge and was constantly telling his disciples what was "going to happen".

I have never seen any scripture that suggest Jesus did not know He was also going to save the gentiles.