what does Matthew 9:14-17 mean

[godenver1]

What does Jesus mean? Particularly the bolded.

14[bless and do not curse]Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast,[a] but your disciples do not fast?” 15[bless and do not curse]And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. 16[bless and do not curse]No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. 17[bless and do not curse]Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”

And also, any help with Matthew 11:14 would be appreciated! I understand there is a connection with Malachi 4:5

14[bless and do not curse]and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

I thought Elijah was a prophet in Kings. I've also noticed Elijah is present with Moses at the transfiguration, so I assume Elijah is used as a metaphor?

It is Jesus referring to John the Baptist.

 

[Shane R]

New wine was not yet fully fermented. If it were put into old wine skins, they would burst from the expansion caused by the gases of fermentation. Jesus' point was that his incarnation and ministry represented a new beginning, a different paradigm. The rules of the past were thus not necessarily applicable to his followers.

When he went away, they would establish there own customs and traditions. These would be consistent with the nature of God, and man's relationship with him and not necessarily the ascetic ideas of Judaism.

Pope Emeritus Benedict has some fascinating observations on the scriptural motif of wine.

 

[godenver1]

Thanks....so in short it represents the new covenant?

(in context...it represents new joy at this renewed relationship with God through Jesus..and not so much fasting or mourning over our sins? Is this correct?)

 

[Tammy]

What does Jesus mean? Particularly the bolded.

14[bless and do not curse]Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast,[a] but your disciples do not fast?” 15[bless and do not curse]And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. 16[bless and do not curse]No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. 17[bless and do not curse]Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”

And also, any help with Matthew 11:14 would be appreciated! I understand there is a connection with Malachi 4:5

14[bless and do not curse]and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

I thought Elijah was a prophet in Kings. I've also noticed Elijah is present with Moses at the transfiguration, so I assume Elijah is used as a metaphor?

It is Jesus referring to John the Baptist.

Hi There! This is a commentary on the Matthew 17...it really helped me to understand what the "new wine bottles" were.

Nor could the principles of Christ's teaching be united with the forms of Pharisaism. Christ was not to close up the breach that had been made by the teachings of John. He would make more distinct the separation between the old and the new. Jesus further illustrated this fact, saying, "No man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish." The skin bottles which were used as vessels to contain the new wine, after a time became dry and brittle, and were then worthless to serve the same purpose again. In this familiar illustration Jesus presented the condition of the Jewish leaders. Priests and scribes and rulers were fixed in a rut of ceremonies and traditions. Their hearts had become contracted, like the dried-up wine skins to which He had compared them. While they remained satisfied with a legal religion, it was impossible for them to become the depositaries of the living truth of heaven. They thought their own righteousness all-sufficient, and did not desire that a new element should be brought into their religion. The good will of God to men they did not accept as something apart from themselves. They connected it with their own merit because of their good works. The faith that works by love and purifies the soul could find no place for union with the religion of the Pharisees, made up of ceremonies and the injunctions of men. The effort to unite the teachings of Jesus with the established religion would be vain. The vital truth of God, like fermenting wine, would burst the old, decaying bottles of the Pharisaical tradition. {Desire of the Ages, pg. 278}
The Pharisees thought themselves too wise to need instruction, too righteous to need salvation, too highly honored to need the honor that comes from Christ. The Saviour turned away from them to find others who would receive the message of heaven. In the untutored fishermen, in the publican at the market place, in the woman of Samaria, in the common people who heard Him gladly, He found His new bottles for the new wine. The instrumentalities to be used in the gospel work are those souls who gladly receive the light which God sends them. These are His agencies for imparting the knowledge of truth to the world. If through the grace of Christ His people will become new bottles, He will fill them with new wine. {Desire of the Ages, pg. 279}

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

New wine is grace and old wineskins is the law. Don't mix law and grace.

 

[godenver1]

Ok thanks, the above two help!

 

[stan1953]

Old wine = Old covenant...... New wine = New Covenant.

 

[granpa]

What does Jesus mean? Particularly the bolded.

14[bless and do not curse]Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast,[a] but your disciples do not fast?” 15[bless and do not curse]And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. 16[bless and do not curse]No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. 17[bless and do not curse]Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”

it sounds like he is saying that they were not allowed to drink wine because the couldn't handle it

some people can handle their wine and some people can't

bear in mind that wine is a symbol for the Holy Spirit

maybe you need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit first

 

[godenver1]

what the heck?

 

[granpa]

what part was unclear to you?


some wine skins can handle wine and some wine skins can't

Romans 14 - The Weak and the Strong - Accept the - Bible Gateway


Romans 14
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
14 And him who is weak in the faith receive ye -- not to determinations of reasonings;
2 one doth believe that he may eat all things -- and he who is weak doth eat herbs;
3 let not him who is eating despise him who is not eating: and let not him who is not eating judge him who is eating, for God did receive him.
4 Thou -- who art thou that art judging another's domestic? to his own master he doth stand or fall; and he shall be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One doth judge one day above another, and another doth judge every day [alike]; let each in his own mind be fully assured.
6 He who is regarding the day, to the Lord he doth regard [it], and he who is not regarding the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He who is eating, to the Lord he doth eat, for he doth give thanks to God; and he who is not eating, to the Lord he doth not eat, and doth give thanks to God.


for the sake of victuals cast not down the work of God; all things, indeed, [are] pure, but evil [is] to the man who is eating through stumbling.
21 Right [it is] not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor to [do anything] in which thy brother doth stumble, or is made to fall, or is weak.
22 Thou hast faith! to thyself have [it] before God; happy is he who is not judging himself in what he doth approve,
23 and he who is making a difference, if he may eat, hath been condemned, because [it is] not of faith; and all that [is] not of faith is sin.

 

[granpa]

Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost


Colossians 3:10 - And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

 

[stan1953]

it sounds like he is saying that they were not allowed to drink wine because the couldn't handle it

some people can handle their wine and some people can't

bear in mind that wine is a symbol for the Holy Spirit

maybe you need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit first

LOL....well at least they should NOT in their present spiritual condition.

Hence the need to be born AGAIN and renewed before receiving the Holy Spirit.

Nice reply.

 

[godenver1]

@granpa....

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

You're implying the old wine skins represent (possibly) the Pharisees and those like them, who cannot receive the Spirit (wine) but those that are baptized by the Spirit are the new wine skins?

 

[stan1953]

By George I think you've got it!