What does John 1:29 mean to you?

Lulav · Sep 30, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
Can you demonstrate that construction? —particularly the part where "born of the Spirit" = "'called' by the Spirit", and the part where being born of the Spirit depends on one's answering that call. Your passages below don't do that.

NO, I can't demonstrate it. To be born again is to receive a call and answer it. The only way I can explain the call is that it rips your inner most parts and shows you how God sees you. You are a sinner and have sinned against Him. You have believed in God but this is totally different. You answer that call initiated by the Spirit by confession and repentance. You offer yourself up to Him and that is when the change takes place.
You no longer are born into the sin/death of the First Adam but now you are born into the life of the Second Adam.

Mark Quayle said:
In fact, it is rather plain that the action of putting a new spirit within them, and taking out the stony heart and replacing it with a heart of flesh, is done by God, not by the recipient; there isn't even a mention of the recipient being asked if he wanted this.

God, God's Holy Spirit, difference?
The thing is you have a choice to answer that call. When that is answered that is when your heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh.

The passages I posted explain how the New Covenant works.

It talks about the new spirit. King David asked for this here:

Ps 51 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Lulav · Sep 30, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
By free will, some mean mere choice; others, like me, mean the ability to choose according to one's inclinations; others mean uncaused choice. In fact, I insist on the ability to choose, and not by puppetry, but always by our inclinations, even if only for that instant of choice. What do you mean by it?

To choose to do God's will instead of your own.

Like King Davids said speaking of Messiah:

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
I have preached righteousness in the great congregation

Many don't pay attention to this

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Mark Quayle · Sep 30, 2022

Lulav said:
NO, I can't demonstrate it. To be born again is to receive a call and answer it. The only way I can explain the call is that it rips your inner most parts and shows you how God sees you. You are a sinner and have sinned against Him. You have believed in God but this is totally different. You answer that call initiated by the Spirit by confession and repentance. You offer yourself up to Him and that is when the change takes place.
You no longer are born into the sin/death of the First Adam but now you are born into the life of the Second Adam.

God, God's Holy Spirit, difference?
The thing is you have a choice to answer that call. When that is answered that is when your heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh.

The passages I posted explain how the New Covenant works.

It talks about the new spirit. King David asked for this here:

Ps 51 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

fwiw, King David was already born again.

Mark Quayle · Sep 30, 2022

Lulav said:
To choose to do God's will instead of your own.

Like Kind Davids said speaking of Messiah:

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
I have preached righteousness in the great congregation

Many don't pay attention to this

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Of course we should choose God's will instead of our own. The question invoked by "free will" is not what you are choosing, but how you are choosing it. No?

BBAS 64 · Dec 9, 2022

Good day,

It means that Jesus in the work of the cross took away the just penalty of every sin in the world. Which is quite different than saying he paid for the sin of every person in the world.

If there were 10 sins in the world and one person had committed those 10 and in his death he redeemed ( turned away God's just wrath) for that one single person though His death, then He paid for every sin that was in the world all 10 of them.

In Him,

Bill

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
fwiw, King David was already born again.

How do you mean?

Clare73 · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
Free will is about choice. And there are plenty of places in the bible where we can see that, starting in the garden.

But here is a place in the Torah where the servant of God is speaking directly to his people right before they go into the promised land.

See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Just like today, they were given a choice to obey God (and live) or to not (and die).

He created us with Free will, the choice to love him or not.

There is totally free will--the power to voluntarily, without external force or constraint, make all choices, including the choice to always be sinless in thought, word and deed.
There is limited free will--the power to voluntarily choose, without external force or constraint, what one prefers.

Man has limited free will, not totally free will.

Clare73 · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
That's true, while the subject it very specific though, about what John the Baptizer meant when he said 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world'
We aren't debating if he could or not but the subject is if it is sin or Sins

"Sin" is one horrible spiritual "disease" made of many different sins.

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Clare73 said:
"Sin" is one horrible spiritual "disease" made of many different sins.

I think the OP was clear on the subject.
Yes it could be collective but this was a man who was raised up for one particular job, to usher in the Messiah. I think he understood what was at stake and that it wasn't just sins, those who came to John were being baptized for the remission of sins, repentance.

I saw this as harking back to the garden when man first sinned, and who caused it.
That is what Messiah came to do, as was prophesied back then in Gen 3:15

Lulav said:
I'm no expert in Greek but studying the word used it does not say 'sins of the world' but 'Sin of the world'.

The bruising of the head - accomplished.

'It is finished' - Genesis 3:15

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Clare73 said:
There is totally free will--the power to voluntarily, without external force or constraint, make all choices, including the choice to always be sinless in thought, word and deed.
There is limited free will--the power to voluntarily choose, without external force or constraint, what one prefers.

Man has limited free will, not totally free will.

Lulav said:
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

That's called the unforgivable sin. When the Holy Spirit calls to us we have total free will to answer or ignore.

God will not be challenged, he is righteous and irreproachable. He gives all those a chance to come live with him for eternity, but he let's them make the call.

Clare73 · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
That's called the unforgivable sin. When the Holy Spirit calls to us we have total free will to answer or ignore.

Man does not have a totally free will (philosophically), he cannot choose to be always sinless in thought, word and deed.

But he is definitely free to choose, without external force or constraint, his answer to the offer of salvation.

Mark Quayle · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
How do you mean?

Can you show how he was not?

Jonaitis · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Specifically the highlighted part.

He did not come just for the Jewish nation.

"Gentile" did not originally mean non-Jewish, but refers to the "Nations." Gentile is an invented word post-apostolic.

Mark Quayle · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
Born of the flesh has the attachments inherited from our ancestors (Adam and Eve). To be born of the Spirit means to me that you have been 'called' by the Spirit to repentance and have answered that call. It somehow changes your 'DNA'.

Here is a hint at that from when God visited Ezekiel in the chariot.

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

It is similar to Jer 31:30-33

I guess you mean it figuratively, that it changes your DNA. Because if indeed, your DNA carries the sin nature, and inherited corruption, then why is the "Old Man" still present in the flesh of the redeemed, if, as I understand you to be claiming, the DNA is changed back?

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
Can you show how he was not?

Deflecting? Why? You are the one that stated that he was, can't you back that up?

Clare73 · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
Deflecting? Why? You are the one that stated that he was, can't you back that up?

I'd say that a man after God's own heart is born again. . .

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Jonaitis said:
He did not come just for the Jewish nation.

"Gentile" did not originally mean non-Jewish, but refers to the "Nations." Gentile is an invented word post-apostolic.

I did not say he did, why are you trying to make it about that?

I'm not sure why you're arguing this, but the nations were known as the goyim, a person that was not of the family of GOD, a goy.

Jonaitis · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
I did not say he did, why are you trying to make it about that?

I'm not sure why you're arguing this, but the nations were known as the goyim, a person that was not of the family of GOD, a goy.

I like to ramble, so carry on if you don't care to engage.

Lulav · Dec 9, 2022

Clare73 said:
I'd say that a man after God's own heart is born again. . .

So you believe that it's not just a NT thing?

Mark Quayle · Dec 9, 2022

Lulav said:
Deflecting? Why? You are the one that stated that he was, can't you back that up?

I thought it was rather obvious. He has the Spirit of God, for one thing. He is pretty obviously a man after God's own heart, and God is always on his mind, previously, and God's law is his delight.

The reason I asked if you could show how not, is because to me it was rather obvious that he was, and I wanted to know if you had some reason to say he was not. Also, in affirming truth, it is usually easier to show something false to be false, than to show something true to be truth.

What does John 1:29 mean to you?

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