What does it really say?

pescador · Jul 23, 2016

As everyone knows, the Bible, which is actually a collection of sixty-six separate manuscripts, is a very complex work that says many different things. Because they have different authors, were written at different times in different places, and were written to different cultures, groups, and individuals, it is often very hard to determine and apply the words correctly.

Because the chapters and verses were added centuries after the last works were written, it has become very easy to lift a single verse out of context and apply it to a specific situation in our times. More often than not, it is applied without any reference to the audience or situation in which the work was created.

A single example: in a thread about the legality of abortion in 21st Century United States, the poster quoted Acts 5:29: "We must obey God rather than people". The situation described by Luke was when the apostles were told by the Sanhedrin that they must stop preaching about Jesus. In other words, the issue was freedom of speech, and the apostles were saying that they were compelled to tell the truth about Christ. This has absolutely nothing to do with obeying the decision of the Supreme Court regarding a woman's right to an abortion. Paul wrote to the church in Rome that they were clearly to obey the governmental authorities, which had been established by God. This has much more universal application throughout time than a single, out-of-context half-verse.

I am not defending abortion rights here; that is not the purpose of this thread. The question is: how does one apply appropriate exegesis of parts of the Bible to the modern world, social situations, personal privacy, and any other issue that you can think of?

1watchman · Jul 24, 2016

The first thing to learn is about salvation of one's soul ---noting John 1; John 3; John 14 for a good foundation; otherwise it will only be a carnal man in this age trying to follow some religious ideals, rules, etc (which will profit nothing before God).

If one does not see the whole Bible as an inter-connected revelation of God to man over the centuries, they are missing the mind of God; and trying to apply every verse to every situation in the modern world is not wise. Each Book of the Bible needs to be understood as part of the total picture ---seeing the OT as revealing the Creator-God, and His dealing with the covenant earthly people of Israel, with sacrifices and ordinances, and commandments ---all pointing forward to the day when the Messiah of Israel and promises by God would be fulfilled in His beloved Son, the real blood sacrifice and redeemer given to both Israel and the Gentiles by promise.

Taking a verse out of context is a dangerous thing, and supposing the Bible has contradictions in it is telling God He did it wrong would be a very dangerous thing.

God has given mankind the essential truths of Redemption way, Church truth, and Spiritual life to live for God. If one holds to that and not be looking for a particular verse to deal with a particular situation in this fallen world, he will do well. Following all that the Lord has shown the Church in the New Testament will make the walk of a faithful one good and profitable before God. The principles of God apply in all ages, and one can live by them in this ungodly world.

The World is the world, as many have noted; and we who know the Lord Jesus should not be trying to conform to the world, rather to God as shown us, while being a witness to the lost souls who know not God. That is my understanding of our place today. Look up always!

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 24, 2016

pescador said:
The question is: how does one apply appropriate exegesis of parts of the Bible to the modern world, social situations, personal privacy, and any other issue that you can think of?

One doesn't.

Be becoming as a little child, trusting and relying on the Father in heaven for all.

Learn everything the same way simon bar jonah learned Yahshua HaMashiach is the Messiah , the son of the Living Elohim.

crossnote · Jul 24, 2016

pescador said:
As everyone knows, the Bible, which is actually a collection of sixty-six separate manuscripts, is a very complex work that says many different things. Because they have different authors, were written at different times in different places, and were written to different cultures, groups, and individuals, it is often very hard to determine and apply the words correctly.

Because the chapters and verses were added centuries after the last works were written, it has become very easy to lift a single verse out of context and apply it to a specific situation in our times. More often than not, it is applied without any reference to the audience or situation in which the work was created.

A single example: in a thread about the legality of abortion in 21st Century United States, the poster quoted Acts 5:29: "We must obey God rather than people". The situation described by Luke was when the apostles were told by the Sanhedrin that they must stop preaching about Jesus. In other words, the issue was freedom of speech, and the apostles were saying that they were compelled to tell the truth about Christ. This has absolutely nothing to do with obeying the decision of the Supreme Court regarding a woman's right to an abortion. Paul wrote to the church in Rome that they were clearly to obey the governmental authorities, which had been established by God. This has much more universal application throughout time than a single, out-of-context half-verse.

I am not defending abortion rights here; that is not the purpose of this thread. The question is: how does one apply appropriate exegesis of parts of the Bible to the modern world, social situations, personal privacy, and any other issue that you can think of?

If I read the post you are referring to correctly, the poster also brought in other Scriptures showing that murder was wrong especially of innocent lives. That God had formed life and that no one but the instituted Government had the moral right to take a life and that only after that man had taken another's life.
Also an example was given where the midwives saved the lives of the Hebrew male children in defiance to Pharoahs edict and was commended by God.
So in the light of those Scriptures and others given, the rhetorical question was asked, 'Ought we not to obey God rather than men, when man's law collides with God's law?'
Perhaps another question should be, 'does God's moral law change from Genesis to Revelation?

pescador · Jul 25, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
One doesn't.

Be becoming as a little child, trusting and relying on the Father in heaven for all.

Learn everything the same way simon bar jonah learned Yahshua HaMashiach is the Messiah , the son of the Living Elohim.

We are still living in the modern world, so we can't be like little children: naive, totally trusting. Jesus said ""I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves" for a reason. Anyone who is conscious knows about the wolves who will kill and devour you at any opportunity. If you become like a naive, trusting little child you won't last very long.

pescador · Jul 25, 2016

1watchman said:
The first thing to learn is about salvation of one's soul ---noting John 1; John 3; John 14 for a good foundation; otherwise it will only be a carnal man in this age trying to follow some religious ideals, rules, etc (which will profit nothing before God).

If one does not see the whole Bible as an inter-connected revelation of God to man over the centuries, they are missing the mind of God; and trying to apply every verse to every situation in the modern world is not wise. Each Book of the Bible needs to be understood as part of the total picture ---seeing the OT as revealing the Creator-God, and His dealing with the covenant earthly people of Israel, with sacrifices and ordinances, and commandments ---all pointing forward to the day when the Messiah of Israel and promises by God would be fulfilled in His beloved Son, the real blood sacrifice and redeemer given to both Israel and the Gentiles by promise.

Taking a verse out of context is a dangerous thing, and supposing the Bible has contradictions in it is telling God He did it wrong would be a very dangerous thing.

God has given mankind the essential truths of Redemption way, Church truth, and Spiritual life to live for God. If one holds to that and not be looking for a particular verse to deal with a particular situation in this fallen world, he will do well. Following all that the Lord has shown the Church in the New Testament will make the walk of a faithful one good and profitable before God. The principles of God apply in all ages, and one can live by them in this ungodly world.

The World is the world, as many have noted; and we who know the Lord Jesus should not be trying to conform to the world, rather to God as shown us, while being a witness to the lost souls who know not God. That is my understanding of our place today. Look up always!

Truly, truly wise and excellent!! One of the greatest posts I have ever read. Thank you!

dysert · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
We are still living in the modern world, so we can't be like little children: naive, totally trusting. Jesus said ""I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves" for a reason. Anyone who is conscious knows about the wolves who will kill and devour you at any opportunity. If you become like a naive, trusting little child you won't last very long.

We have to be careful to not over-simplify or over-complicate. We do need to become like little children when it comes to our relationship with God. But we need to be as shrewd as snakes when it comes to our relationship with the world.

Job8 · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
I am not defending abortion rights here; that is not the purpose of this thread. The question is: how does one apply appropriate exegesis of parts of the Bible to the modern world, social situations, personal privacy, and any other issue that you can think of?

It is not all that complicated. Let's take the example of the legality of abortion. It is legal only because the truth about abortion has been rejected, and a lie has been promoted. So there is nothing complicated about exposing and opposing lies (which all come from Satan).

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
If you become like a naive, trusting little child you won't last very long.

Jesus never told His disciples they would last very long.(on this earth)

He told them, IF they tried to protect/save/keep their own life, they could not be His.

They readily forfeited their lives. (to belong to Jesus)

crossnote · Jul 25, 2016

We are to mold our understanding to God's Word and not try to mold God's Word to fit the culture.

pescador · Jul 25, 2016

Job8 said:
It is not all that complicated. Let's take the example of the legality of abortion. It is legal only because the truth about abortion has been rejected, and a lie has been promoted. So there is nothing complicated about exposing and opposing lies (which all come from Satan).

As I said in the OP, "I am not defending abortion rights here; that is not the purpose of this thread." If you want to discuss the legality of abortion or any related subject, please go to another thread.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
A single example: in a thread about the legality of abortion in 21st Century United States, the poster quoted Acts 5:29: "We must obey God rather than people". The situation described by Luke was when the apostles were told by the Sanhedrin that they must stop preaching about Jesus. In other words, the issue was freedom of speech, and the apostles were saying that they were compelled to tell the truth about Christ. This has absolutely nothing to do with obeying the decision of the Supreme Court regarding a woman's right to an abortion.

??
This has EVERYTHING to do with what Yhwh clearly says all through scripture.

Job8 said:
It is not all that complicated. ..... a lie has been promoted. So there is nothing complicated about exposing and opposing lies (which all come from Satan).

Many lies have been promoted(and leaglized) "as the truth". (and the truth is called "a lie").
So,
in the world,
in society,
in the untied states as it is, (politically, socially, medically, educationally, etc)
telling the TRUTH is NOT POPULAR, often not legal, not permitted, not accepted, and not welcome,
same as Jesus.

pescador · Jul 25, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
??
This has EVERYTHING to do with what Yhwh clearly says all through scripture.

Many lies have been promoted(and leaglized) "as the truth". (and the truth is called "a lie").
So,
in the world,
in society,
in the untied states as it is, (politically, socially, medically, educationally, etc)
telling the TRUTH is NOT POPULAR, often not legal, not permitted, not accepted, and not welcome,
same as Jesus.

In all my experience, most people are truthful. BTW, the speaking the truth in this country is legal and permitted almost everywhere and almost all the time. It may not always be welcome. The "truth" about Jesus is often distorted and expressed in a manner that is not welcomed by people because of their un-Christian tone and manner.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
In all my experience, most people are truthful

Until I read Scripture, and even then until they were tested, I thought so also.
No more. In fact, it is rather widely taught now(the last 20 years) that NOBODY is truthful.(NOBODY is what they seem). And that is true almost all the time.
Even (or especially) in court - the lawyers admit/ say/ "everybody lies" the trick is don't get caught. (even judges/ lawyers/ all the plaintiffs and defendants/ routinely-usually-are expected to be lying).

Scripture verifies this about mankind and society.(society is pernicious-death dealing).
Remember Jesus trusted Himself to no one.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
BTW, the speaking the truth in this country is legal and permitted almost everywhere and almost all the time.

What country are you in ?
DO they allow the simple inexpensive and natural thousands of years old dietary helps to maintain health
and the freedom to use proven alternative methods for remedies ?

Job8 · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
BTW, the speaking the truth in this country is legal and permitted almost everywhere and almost all the time.

Take a good hard look at the media and the politicians. The truth is NOT welcome. The entire system is rigged and built upon lies.

Job8 · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
As I said in the OP, "I am not defending abortion rights here; that is not the purpose of this thread." If you want to discuss the legality of abortion or any related subject, please go to another thread.

Since you brought it up as an example, it was also used as an example. We could take any other issue.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

Job8 said:
Take a good hard look at the media and the politicians. The truth is NOT welcome. The entire system is rigged and built upon lies.

Yes, and it is a different thread of course,
but this is why it surprises me so much that so many people are deceived/ tricked/ still as if their vote matters. The entire system is driven by a lot of pressures - mostly greed, power hungry, deception - and is doing immensely more evil that almost anyone realizes.....
and even the "system" participants this year admitted that whoever gets put in
is already decided ahead of time - and it's not by votes ! (practically never has been).

Then, IF it was by votes, WHY then did a "majority" take prayer out of school, discipline out of school, righteousness out of government, right dealing out of government ,
and why then did a "majority" (of course it wasn't; but "as if") approve of
sending so many military members to their deaths killing innocent (or not threatening anyway) civilians (as MANY of the military members confessed openly and MANY went AWOL because of it) .... and so on and on and on .....

ie. the "system" is not at all trustworthy.... nor is it 'working' for the good of anybody....

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2016

pescador said:
The question is: how does one apply appropriate exegesis of parts of the Bible to the modern world, social situations, personal privacy, and any other issue that you can think of?

the generation has not gotten better.
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded ...
biblehub.com/acts/2-40.htm
Bible Hub
With many other words he testified, and he urged them, "Be saved from this corrupt generation." ... He urged, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." ....

pescador · Jul 25, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
the generation has not gotten better.
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded ...
biblehub.com/acts/2-40.htm
Bible Hub
With many other words he testified, and he urged them, "Be saved from this corrupt generation." ... He urged, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." ....

yeshuaslavejeff, are you all right? I'm condensing my reply by simply saying that you're not making any sense at all, at least to me.

Nobody is truthful? Does that include yourself, or are you somehow different from everybody else? One of the signs of a false leader is that they claim that everyone else is wrong, evil, etc. while they alone are right and have pure knowledge.

FYI, I am in the United States. My wife and my daughter are both into healthy eating (as am I), and are in alternative healing professions, so your rant is nonsense. Even your signature makes no sense in this area.

When you say "IF it was by votes, WHY then did a "majority" take prayer out of school, discipline out of school, righteousness out of government, right dealing out of government ,
and why then did a "majority" (of course it wasn't; but "as if") approve of
sending so many military members to their deaths killing innocent (or not threatening anyway) civilians (as MANY of the military members confessed openly and MANY went AWOL because of it) .... and so on and on and on ..." it confirms to me that you are living in a separate reality. Your view of the US society, the schools, government, wars, and so on makes me very concerned that you're are living in a world of delusion. (And have secret knowledge?)

It's certainly not the world I and almost everyone else lives in.

What does it really say?

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