What does being "spiritually dead" mean? And what does "eternal death" mean? Does it mean total oblivion? And if not, why is it called "death"? Normally, from our understanding and worldly terminology, this would denote a cessation of life or being. If we continue living on after death, why is eternal separation from God called "death"? Why not just call it 'misery'?
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What does it mean to be spiritually dead? Is this normal?
- Thread starter Starmarigold1791
- Start date
Rhamiel
Member of the Round Table
I like your question in the title of this thread
is it normal
spiritual death can be seen as normal, as it is the state that all mankind is born in after the fall of Adam and Eve into original sin
spiritual death would be being in a state of separation from God who is the source of all life
Eternal Death would mean being in hell, where one is cut off from all supernatural grace and is in constant misery, the totality of it is why it is called death.
The pains of hell are still somewhat of a mystery
while we are alive, even the most horrible of sinners is capable of being saved by God who is kind and full of mercy
but after we are judged, those sent to hell are cut off from God in a way that even the most wretched sinner on earth is not.
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Ishraqiyun
Fanning the Divine Spark
It's a state of sleep or delusion were people are unaware of and unresponsive to higher influences. It basically means we are walking around like robots following programing that we had little role in making all the while being blind to the need for awareness and freedom. Spiritual death = lack of gnosis, true will, conscious love, true imagination, awareness, and all that good stuff.
Yes, most people spend the majority of their lives in that state. Only on rare instances do they wake up for a minute or two. Shortly thereafter they tend to go right back to day dreaming. People seem to be more apt to have these short term spontaneous awakening when they are young or in extreme situations like their first kiss, a car crash, a profound aesthetic or religious experience, or on psychedelic drugs. As we age we often become more and more jaded. It takes greater and greater jolts to bring us to ourselves. Some folks are, unfortunately, as spiritually dead as a doornail.
Personally I find myself in the sleeping or dead state throughout most of the day. Staying aware is hard work.
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Ishraqiyun
Fanning the Divine Spark
One of the antidotes is keeping watch on yourself. Awareness is the key:
"Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers."
1 Timothy 4:16
Examine and test yourself. Pay attention to Christ within to stay awake:1 Timothy 4:16
"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you fail to meet the test! "
2 Corinthians 13:5
Don't let the mind wander after tomorrow because there is enough here now in this time to worry about (Matthew 6:34). Be in the now.2 Corinthians 13:5
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If spiritual death is eternal separation from God can eternal separation end? If it can end it was never eternal. If spiritual death is not eternal separation from God how does it differ?
The Bible speaks of a first death and a second death (at the judgment), where does this non-eternal spiritual death fit in? Where does the Bible say we are “born” spiritually dead? Yes we inherit death from Adam but this physical death, for us to inherit spiritual death from Adam would mean we inherit his spirit but the scriptures in many places say our spirit is given by God and that He makes the soul. Does God create and give us dead spirits? And make spiritually dead souls?
In Psalm 139, he wrote, “For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are your works; and that my soul knows right well.”
Psalm 199:3, “Know ye that the Lord is God; it is He that has made us, and not we ourselves.
Job 10:8, “Your hands shaped me and made me.”
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zech.12:1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him
Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which comes out of it; he that gives breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk in it
Isaiah 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made
Are all those aborted babies sent to hell? You mean God made them to intentionally be damned at birth? The Bible says children are a heritage FROM THE LORD, so spiritually dead beings are His heritage? The Bible also says they are a blessing (a spiritually dead blessing?) and the man is blessed whose quiver is full of them. So having multiple spiritually dead children is a blessing? How so? And why is being as little children (spiritually dead?) an analogy for thoise who will inherit the kingdom?
Deuteronomy 24:16 adds "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
And Ezekiel 18:20 confirms this "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."
Don’t you see that according to the whole council of God on this matter, the Lord's teachings disagrees with you? Yes we are born sinners but sinners that have not yet sinned (and when we do we die to the Spirit), but the Lord says He DOES NOT hold the sins of the fathers against the children. The soul that sins dies for their sin not the sins of the fathers (which includes Adam's).
In His name
Paul
The Bible speaks of a first death and a second death (at the judgment), where does this non-eternal spiritual death fit in? Where does the Bible say we are “born” spiritually dead? Yes we inherit death from Adam but this physical death, for us to inherit spiritual death from Adam would mean we inherit his spirit but the scriptures in many places say our spirit is given by God and that He makes the soul. Does God create and give us dead spirits? And make spiritually dead souls?
In Psalm 139, he wrote, “For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are your works; and that my soul knows right well.”
Psalm 199:3, “Know ye that the Lord is God; it is He that has made us, and not we ourselves.
Job 10:8, “Your hands shaped me and made me.”
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zech.12:1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him
Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which comes out of it; he that gives breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk in it
Isaiah 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made
Are all those aborted babies sent to hell? You mean God made them to intentionally be damned at birth? The Bible says children are a heritage FROM THE LORD, so spiritually dead beings are His heritage? The Bible also says they are a blessing (a spiritually dead blessing?) and the man is blessed whose quiver is full of them. So having multiple spiritually dead children is a blessing? How so? And why is being as little children (spiritually dead?) an analogy for thoise who will inherit the kingdom?
Deuteronomy 24:16 adds "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
And Ezekiel 18:20 confirms this "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."
Don’t you see that according to the whole council of God on this matter, the Lord's teachings disagrees with you? Yes we are born sinners but sinners that have not yet sinned (and when we do we die to the Spirit), but the Lord says He DOES NOT hold the sins of the fathers against the children. The soul that sins dies for their sin not the sins of the fathers (which includes Adam's).
In His name
Paul
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Jesus, particularly in John, used "life" to refer to life as God meant us to live it. In that non-literal but important sense, being cut off from that kind of life with God is death.
The term "spiritually dead" can be used in different ways. They all indicate someone who isn't responding to God. But you can use the term for a person (or even a group) who isn't showing signs of a relationship with God, but in a way that could be temporary or even incomplete (i.e. they aren't living fully, but still have saving faith). Or you can use it for someone who is cut off from God in a permanent way.
What "eternal death" means is tied up with the debate about hell. Depending upon your view, it came mean that you cease to exist after death, that you spend eternity in hell -- a more metaphorical use of "death", or that you spend something less than eternity in something like hell -- a more metaphorical use of the whole thing.
The term "spiritually dead" can be used in different ways. They all indicate someone who isn't responding to God. But you can use the term for a person (or even a group) who isn't showing signs of a relationship with God, but in a way that could be temporary or even incomplete (i.e. they aren't living fully, but still have saving faith). Or you can use it for someone who is cut off from God in a permanent way.
What "eternal death" means is tied up with the debate about hell. Depending upon your view, it came mean that you cease to exist after death, that you spend eternity in hell -- a more metaphorical use of "death", or that you spend something less than eternity in something like hell -- a more metaphorical use of the whole thing.
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