What Does Being a Moderate Christian Mean to You?

[Reader Antonius]

Thanks in advance!

 

[mozart250]

I'll answer being a newbie here.

First of all I am sort of a John McCain type of Christian (conservative/moderate with some quirks). From my reading of these forums I probably can post in good conscience as either a conservative or a moderate. I know I can not post in good conscience as a liberal, and I probably can not as a fundamentalist either.

For the record I probably also can post as a Wesleyan type and a Charismatic/Pentecostal type (although quite cautious in the latter).

I am definitely not liberal because I believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God and salvation only through Jesus Christ. However I also treat everyone who professes faith in Jesus Christ, seems to be Orthodox(the Nicene and Apostles creed will do) and seems to have the fruit of the Holy Spirit as a brother in Christ. That is not the approach that fundamentalists take from my experience.

Specifically I am moderate in
* I take Catholics and Orthodox at their word and consider them as much brothers in Christ as other Protestants (I have more issues with liberal Protestants than Catholics and Orthodox). Fundamentalists don't do that from my experience.
* I don't really care all that much what version of the Bible you use, whether you are Calvinist or Arminianist, how and when you think Jesus is returning, how you think God created the earth, what you believe about communion/eucharist and baptism, and similar non-essential stuff that Christians like to argue about. Disclaimer..my "I don't cares" do not extend to moral issues like abortion and gay marriage. Those (particularly abortion) I am passionate about.
* I don't believe that God is a registered Republican (since He is British, He can't vote in our elections anyway). Disclaimer: I do vote primarily on the issue of killing babies and that means I vote conservative (I would think that liberals should be pro-life..protecting the most vulnerable of our society..but they aren't so I am not).
* I don't believe Faith Alone and Bible Alone are Christian essentials (I find it curious that those phrases lack verbs).
* I don't believe that God has a cow if somebody or a group of Christians doesn't totally understand Him and gets stuff wrong. Therefore I don't either.
* There are a few things that probably I should believe but have intellectual and emotional problems swallowing (eternally burning in hell for example). However, I don't disbelieve either..I guess I ultimately trust that God is just and let everything else flow from that.

 

[Anglian]

Well, it is interesting that although I come from a different tradition than Mozart250, I can subscribe to most of what he says; and kudos to him for such a good account.

I am definitely not liberal because I believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God and salvation only through Jesus Christ. However I also treat everyone who professes faith in Jesus Christ, seems to be Orthodox(the Nicene and Apostles creed will do) and seems to have the fruit of the Holy Spirit as a brother in Christ. That is not the approach that fundamentalists take from my experience.

At one with you here all the way.

Specifically I am moderate in
* I take Catholics and Orthodox at their word and consider them as much brothers in Christ as other Protestants (I have more issues with liberal Protestants than Catholics and Orthodox). Fundamentalists don't do that from my experience.

Yes, as an Orthodox Christian, I can reciprocate that towards other Christians; I don't know enough about liberal Protestants, but I'd be happy to hear what they say they hold rather than assume I knew.

On this one:

* I don't really care all that much what version of the Bible you use, whether you are Calvinist or Arminianist, how and when you think Jesus is returning, how you think God created the earth, what you believe about communion/eucharist and baptism, and similar non-essential stuff that Christians like to argue about. Disclaimer..my "I don't cares" do not extend to moral issues like abortion and gay marriage. Those (particularly abortion) I am passionate about.

I guess I might have the odd caveat; I think it does matter what you believe about the Eucharist; but is it a matter relating to Salvation; no; so I guess it isn't a real caveat, probably a cultural thing. On abortion I am at one with you. On the gay thing, well I believe we must love the sinner, although the sin we abhor.

Here:

* I don't believe that God is a registered Republican (since He is British, He can't vote in our elections anyway). Disclaimer: I do vote primarily on the issue of killing babies and that means I vote conservative (I would think that liberals should be pro-life..protecting the most vulnerable of our society..but they aren't so I am not).

God's kingdom is not of this world, and the Christian will always be a stranger within it; we should do what we can to walk in the way of Christ.
Here

* I don't believe Faith Alone and Bible Alone are Christian essentials (I find it curious that those phrases lack verbs).

my own Church lacks either concept, not just the verbs; so again, although for a different tradition, I would concur.
On this one:

* I don't believe that God has a cow if somebody or a group of Christians doesn't totally understand Him and gets stuff wrong. Therefore I don't either.

I agree; we should quite crucifying Christ anew everyday in our intolerance. You do the sign of the Cross one way, I do it another, Joe over there thinks we shouldn't be doing it at all; God reads our intentions - that's enough.
On this one:

* There are a few things that probably I should believe but have intellectual and emotional problems swallowing (eternally burning in hell for example). However, I don't disbelieve either..I guess I ultimately trust that God is just and let everything else flow from that.

well, God is mercy rather than justice as we understand it, so let us be content to be judged by Him; that at least gives me some hope!

Interesting then that one from a very different tradition sees these things the same.

Of course, I am sure that the one thing we are very immoderate about is our devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Qyöt27]

My take on it is more or less similar to how I justify classing myself as politically moderate - a strong focus on pragmatism. Now, the issue in that is how I treat that in light of established orthodoxy.

• I share many points in common with mozart250's post. I may have my own opinion on many of those topics, but in the end I'm content with saying I honestly don't know, and I'm not afraid of being in a situation where that's the best answer I can give.

• I see myself as both traditional and post-modern, in that I'm not so wrapped up in maintaining the status quo that I can't recognize the real problems, feel confident in criticizing those ideas and establishments that I see as misguided and being destructive to others' faith (or simply reeking of herd mentality and legalism), or attempting to do what I can to see wrongs rectified. I don't see 'tolerance' as a dirty word or as some sort of heresy - IMO, just because one is tolerant doesn't mean they're spineless or willing to turn a blind eye.

• Unlike many Protestants, I actually don't disagree with Catholic and Orthodox beliefs; my issue comes with the question of validity - I don't feel that those issues are so one-sided in what's necessary for them to be valid, and on those things where validity isn't a concern, I see those particular interpretations as within the realm of possibility, even though I might align myself with a different view or simply don't practice anything concerning that point.

• I view Scripture as inspired and authoritative on moral issues, but I reject the idea of Inerrancy on scientific matters. I see the interpretation of Scripture as one that requires context above all, and trying to approach it with a 21st-century philosophy of understanding or worldview is more often than not going to distort what you see in it and risk putting your priorities in the wrong places.

• I keep my faith and my politics separate; this doesn't mean my values aren't influenced by my faith and that in turn they don't influence my politics, but concerning my political stances, I vote on what I think is best for the country as a whole, not on what the token 'Christian stance' is (which most often is aligned with groups not of the same theological tradition I am).
  
  Those controversial topics I view as simply distraction issues played to manipulate voters into lending support to a candidate, especially since in terms of stuff like presidential elections, they really don't have the power to do anything about those things if Congress disagrees with them. I'd rather vote according to issues that are likely to be resolved or acted upon rather than just talked about. IMO, resolutions to said issues should be left to the state or even the communities involved. It isn't a blanket solution like advocates on either side want, but that's really the best I think it'll ever be (although with abortion I view it as a lose-lose situation and would rather see it done away with through medical & obstetric - rather than political - means, since that's the only proper resolution I can see to the issue).
  
  On the gay marriage thing, I believe the government should stay out of marriages altogether, no matter what your sexual orientation is. Detach the tax benefits and whatnot from the institution and let the idea of 'marriage' fall back into the authority of religious and social communities - this is really the only thing I think can make it actually meaningful again, and the divorce rate would probably end up falling because of it. As far as I'm concerned, fly-by-night weddings and drive-thru divorces have made the institution into more of a mockery than gay marriage ever could.

I really didn't mean for that political part to take up as much space as it did, as I don't identify myself through politics.

 

[dayhiker]

I like a lot of Motart's view.
Tho I don't have a problems with guys or them getting married.
Since I believe list is the standard, I'm not much for a hard list of laws that are held as the standard no matter what they do to people.
I think relationships are cental and the totality of CHristianity. So I don't work much for developing institutions any more.

dayhiker

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I can pretty much agree with what everybody has posted so far, especially Mozart250 and Anglian.

God's love for us is not moderate, nor should our love for Him be moderate.

I essentially line up with the conservatives (though not the fundamentalists) on doctrine, though my attitude toward tolerance, inclusiveness and ecumenism is more liberal. I am both charismatic and emergent, and thus "charismissional".

I'm fortunate enough to have found a good church home with a like-minded Assemblies of God congregation. By theology I could just as easily be Anglican or Lutheran, but this is the one God guided me to.

 

[gtmyers]

I believe that God is. I believe the apostles creed sums up my faith.

I believe the bible is true and without errors in everything but science. I do believe God created the world using evolutionary processes. I don't pretend to understand it all but I do agree with science, but where science leaves God out of creation and teaches the big bang, I believe God was behind it all.

I do not think the bible allows for homosexuality. It calls it a sin and a abomination. I think one that does this has a problem with sin just like the thief or a person that lies. Its a sin that God will forgive if an attitude of repentance is shown toward it.

I may be a bit more liberal though in this. I think its ok for a woman to be a pastor. If you really want me to get into it just let me know.

I am weary of fundamentalists and their attitude that they are always right. Ive been in some of those places before and felt bad for them when they say things like they are the only ones on the true path. Sounds like Jim Jones to me.

 

[WannaWitness]

I am moderate in that I don't mix a political agenda with my Christianity (in fact, I'm a bit disappointed in politics no matter what the party is). When it comes to theology and basic morals, however, I feel I am conservative (which is why I am also part of the Conservative Christians portion of the forum).

 

[higgs2]

It means I'm "not a nutter".

I affirm the Nicene Creed and I'm okay with questions and comfortable with parodox.

 

[Anglian]

It means I'm "not a nutter".

I affirm the Nicene Creed and I'm okay with questions and comfortable with parodox.

That's a lovely way of putting it - and I can't imagine that anyone reading your posts would ever think that you are a 'nutter' - unless it were of the 'gathering nuts in May' variety.

Questions will always outnumber our ability to understand the answers; we are in the care of the Infinite and the Omniscient as well as the All-Compassionate, and since we are none of us the first two, and we often have trouble with the third, we'd better be used to questions and paradoxes.

What we do have, however, is the answer to what ails us - Jesus Christ.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[MrSnow]

I consider myself moderate because:

I believe that in Scripture God makes use of things like science and history as means and not ends in and of themselves. If there are scientific errors...well, they're not the point. If two genealogies don't mesh perfectly...well, they're not the point. I'm sure there are other examples of things other than science and history of which God makes use as a means.

I believe that HOW Christ's death and resurrection work is beyond our ability to fathom. Thus any attempt to describe how the whole thing works is simply a model or analogy. Thus I don't believe that "penal substitutionary atonement" is essential to the message of Christ and salvation. If it works for someone, great. If the model of making a sick man well, or making a dead man alive, or any other model, works better for someone, great.

I believe that acts of love and compassion do far more for evangelism than merely throwing words at people. Truth is more than a set of facts. It is a Person, our actions, our motives, our thoughts, our words, etc.

I don't believe that the kingdom of God will be expanded by political force. Either people will stop getting abortions or they won't. Legislation may make the number a little bit smaller, but it will still happen in the millions, at least. Forced outward conformity will not change hearts. And changed hearts is what is needed to stop sin. It is God who changes hearts, often through the medium of one of us serving and loving people.

I believe that sin and holiness matter. A kingdom is literally "the domain of the king". Are we part of the domain of the King? Is it obvious to those who are not? If we don't care about sin (in our own lives), and would rather justify it than deal with it, can we really say that we are under the domain of the King?

I believe that literary genre matters when interpreting Scripture, and not everything can be read as if it were the front page of a news paper or the procedure for starting up a nuclear reactor (you wanna talk about wooden literalism!).

The list could go on and on . . .

 

[higgs2]

That's a lovely way of putting it - and I can't imagine that anyone reading your posts would ever think that you are a 'nutter' - unless it were of the 'gathering nuts in May' variety.

Questions will always outnumber our ability to understand the answers; we are in the care of the Infinite and the Omniscient as well as the All-Compassionate, and since we are none of us the first two, and we often have trouble with the third, we'd better be used to questions and paradoxes.

What we do have, however, is the answer to what ails us - Jesus Christ.

In peace,

Anglian

What a lovely post! I couldn't agree more, and you stated it beautifully.

"The answer to what ails us", yes we have our Lord and Saviour, and we are united in that.

Peace be with you,
Higgs

 

[higgs2]

I consider myself moderate because:

I believe that in Scripture God makes use of things like science and history as means and not ends in and of themselves. If there are scientific errors...well, they're not the point. If two genealogies don't mesh perfectly...well, they're not the point. I'm sure there are other examples of things other than science and history of which God makes use as a means.

I believe that HOW Christ's death and resurrection work is beyond our ability to fathom. Thus any attempt to describe how the whole thing works is simply a model or analogy. Thus I don't believe that "penal substitutionary atonement" is essential to the message of Christ and salvation. If it works for someone, great. If the model of making a sick man well, or making a dead man alive, or any other model, works better for someone, great.

I believe that acts of love and compassion do far more for evangelism than merely throwing words at people. Truth is more than a set of facts. It is a Person, our actions, our motives, our thoughts, our words, etc.

I don't believe that the kingdom of God will be expanded by political force. Either people will stop getting abortions or they won't. Legislation may make the number a little bit smaller, but it will still happen in the millions, at least. Forced outward conformity will not change hearts. And changed hearts is what is needed to stop sin. It is God who changes hearts, often through the medium of one of us serving and loving people.

I believe that sin and holiness matter. A kingdom is literally "the domain of the king". Are we part of the domain of the King? Is it obvious to those who are not? If we don't care about sin (in our own lives), and would rather justify it than deal with it, can we really say that we are under the domain of the King?

I believe that literary genre matters when interpreting Scripture, and not everything can be read as if it were the front page of a news paper or the procedure for starting up a nuclear reactor (you wanna talk about wooden literalism!).

The list could go on and on . . .

What a great point: "Forced outward conformity will not change hearts." Thanks for reminding us that changing hearts is at the core of our Faith.

 

[Chococat]

Like the conservatives I believe the Bible is the word of God and I also believe in the same moral principles as they do. However I have recently become disillusioned with the judgmental and self righteous attitudes some conservatives have. For instance I believe salvation only comes through Jesus Christ but I don't believe screaming at nonbelievers that they are going to Hell is the way to go about winning souls. Like another poster here (I can't remember which one I believe an ounce of love and compassion is worth a ton of fire and brimstone preaching. In short it is not the beliefs of the conservatives I have issues with it is the tactics. I also believe that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved and that Christians should stop bickering about denominational differences and concentrate on fighting the real enemy (Satan) than each other.

 

[Anglian]

What seems to be emerging from this interesting discussion is that 'moderate' is a word applied to pollitics and social issue, but not to our experience of our Faith.

The American experience seems to drive this discussion, which is interesting for those of us living elsewhere. For those of in the UK I wonder whether we miss or gain something from having a politics so separated from religion?

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Albion]

What seems to be emerging from this interesting discussion is that 'moderate' is a word applied to pollitics and social issue, but not to our experience of our Faith.

The American experience seems to drive this discussion, which is interesting for those of us living elsewhere. For those of in the UK I wonder whether we miss or gain something from having a politics so separated from religion?

In peace,

Anglian

As I remember it, when the forum was first forming, this discussion took place and reached the strong conclusion that "moderate" meant a style, nothing more. That style was to be tolerant and polite, appreciating differences of opinion, and not like the other forums which feature unsupported "promos" for this or that church being shouted at other posters.

 

[Judy02]

For me, I see it as not being an extremist

Liberal or conservative in regard to christian faith are not labels I hear being thrown about IRL. But on this forum, oh wow these labels are everywhere! Basically, some of my beliefs, or conclusions from scripture have been labelled by some as being 'conservative' ones, other ones as 'liberal' beliefs.

I basically desire to learn more from God, and for him to guide my beliefs. And I don't think that makes me fall under a rigid label as a conservative or liberal. I don't think Jesus would have labelled himself as either of these things either. He'd probably simply say he desired to follow the will of his father. Which is what I think christians should be concentrating on more.

I like the look of this forum, because it seems more simple. Just christians getting back to the basics, where you don't feel you have to join some political group or party to feel accepted.

 

[Chococat]

As I remember it, when the forum was first forming, this discussion took place and reached the strong conclusion that "moderate" meant a style, nothing more. That style was to be tolerant and polite, appreciating differences of opinion, and not like the other forums which feature unsupported "promos" for this or that church being shouted at other posters.

That's what I hope to find in this forum. As I've said before, while my opinions on faith and morals tend to lean towards the "conservative" end I have become increasingly disillusioned by the attitudes of some (not all I hasten to add) conservative Christians. Such people seem to think that preaching the Gospel is a perfect excuse to disregard common courtesy and politeness. Yes I know the Gospel will always be "offensive" as the Word says but I don't think that is a licence to make it even more offensive by our attitudes.

 

[WannaWitness]

"Moderate" can refer to the realization that everyone has different ways they look at things, but also realizing that possessing certain special convictions (such as King James Only, no music in contemporary or jazzy styles, being a woman and wearing only dresses, etc.) are merely what they are -- convictions -- and doesn't constitute "real holiness".

"Moderate" can also mean the ability to be at peace with one another regardless of what our convictions are, and learning to focus on the thing believers have in common -- Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[ReformedChapin]

If there was an actual definition of moderate I would tell ya.