What Does A Christian Response to Homosexuality Look Like In The Everyday?

[rapturefish]

What should a christian's response be to someone who has revealed they are gay? You have a friend, a daughter, a son, a church person or a person at school who one day comes out and says they are gay.

What response would you make? What would be the best way to respond in love, but in truth and with the grace that is inherent in every good christian?

Discussions about what the bible says is fine, but I'd like to hear about practical everyday responses to real-life situations more than just bible verses.

 

[JJB]

I've experienced this with a friend who told me he was gay and just continued the relationship as it already existed. Is that too simple?

 

[rapturefish]

I am disgusted at the mere presence of gay themes in any form. It is a subject that boils the blood. But why? Perhaps this issue more than most is where the church and western society diverge most strongly.

The paradigms that I feel should be embraced are:
- to love the sinner but not the sin;
- accepting the reality of others who reveal they are gay but never accepting gayness as acceptable;
- to be loving, supportive of people from chuch in helping them overcome homosexuality as scripture clearly shows God hates it
- To love those outside the church, not to judge them.
- Be free to discuss issues with being gay, and encourage dialogue without confusing that with accepting being gay
- To help people who are gay to realise that to stop being gay is not the same as losing who they are as people when it comes to becoming a christian and becoming identified with Christ - they become new people, but yet still themselves when they give themselves to God, and God empowers people to overcome gay desires.
- People cannot force people to become something they don't want to be. They have to desire change. Non-christians cannot and should not be forced to change in any way. They have to desire change for us to help
- Society should never say that being gay is something to celebrate. But the church has a responsibility to promote freedom in Christ as a real answer to those that say there is no way that people can help being gay.

I don't think it's a bad thing for discussion to be open and to take place. I don't like it when any discussion begins to lead to people accepting being gay as acceptable or something to celebrate.

But I also hate it when people make gay jokes, marginalise gay people as a form of prejudice. Does this sound workable?

I think a definite line needs to be drawn as to what is right and what is wrong about this in society, for if being gay is not seen as a problem to be dealt with but an acceptable lifestyle then people won't seek a way out.

But the church also needs to be loving to gay people outside the church, because without the love of God there will be no spirit of Christ in the church.

I haven't had much contact with people who are gay. But the ones I have met are ordinary people and often they are people who were once in church but were rejected. Some were unrepentant about changing, others were not supported and experienced prejudice and unlove; still others pursued God and were gradually being changed so that they began to desire the opposite sex as God worked in them.

I think if a gay person is christian then it's a matter of supporting them and loving them and also guiding them to overcoming these desires by submitting to God and letting Him change them. If it's a gay person who is christian but tries to get the church to change their beliefs of finding homosexuality unacceptble, to try and make the church accept gay christians as okay, then the church will need to throw the person who remains unrepentant. If it's a gay person who is outside the church no judging is to take place; they have not chosen God's way. But the gospel is to be told to them and love to be shown. Any discussion of issues of gayness can be focused on what God can do to change a person to become identified with Christ, changing their very nature.

It is the dilemma of wanting to be normal but unable to change their gay orientation that should lead to the church showing that this is true, but that God can change them where no-one else can, if they surrender to Him.

Well, these thoughts are a work in progress. I'm open to being wrong, and I hope to have a better resolution for when I do get to know more gay people.

 

[rapturefish]

JJB:

I've experienced this and just continued the relationship as it already existed. Is that too simple?

In some ways this is a pretty good start. If you've loved a person before, whoever it is, why should your love for them change if that love is an unconditional one? But depending on where that person is with God the issue should be responded to in the right way.

 

[JJB]

The only thing that can change the unregenerate is God. He is the only one who can change any of us to become more like Him.

A couple years ago, the City Hall of San Francisco was marrying gay couples on Valentine's day. It happened to be a Friday. On Sunday morning, a lesbian couple that had been "married" by a SF official were in attendance at our 11 am service. We are about 90 minutes away from SF.

As this was a topic of the day in society in general, our pastor was talking about how unbiblical this idea of marrying gay couples is. The sermon was based on a section of scripture -- i've forgotten which passage as time has passed. This lesbian couple stormed out in a huff. They immediately went to the local press, and it was picked up by the NY Times. They went and talked to their attorney as well.

After much discussion back and forth with this couple and our pastor and elders, they were determined to sue our congregation. But our pastor stood strong and remained faithful yet loving with them.

Then our pastor told them that all our services are audio and videotaped. Suddenly, the lawsuit was dropped as well as all the press coverage. I believe they came looking to picka lawsuit to push their agenda -- whatever that may have been.

I was at that service, and saw a commotion, but didn't know what it was about until later.

Pastors need to preach the word faithfully. The gospel is offensive to many. It is the reminder of death to some, life to others.

We also much be faithful to the Gospel.

 

[JJB]

rapturefish,

How would you respond to any friend who sins? Are you surprised by their sinful nature? I am not. I do not like it, but I do not expect a non-Christian to act Christ-like.

I look for opportunities with this friend, just like I do with any other friend, to share the gospel.

 

[McWilliams]

If the person is lost then you would witness to them as to any lost person, urging them to repent and give their whole life to Christ!
If the person claims to be a christian and yet is gay you would confront them in love to turn from their sin and if they refuse you would separate from them, no longer associating with them according to 1Cor 5 statements on dealing with immorality!
For one to claim to be christian and yet be gay is contradictory! A christian lives their life for Christ, submitting to His rule in their life and putting away sin! No man can have two masters for we are slaves to the one we obey!

 

[HamletsChoice]

rapturefish,

How would you respond to any friend who sins? Are you surprised by their sinful nature? I am not. I do not like it, but I do not expect a non-Christian to act Christ-like.

I look for opportunities with this friend, just like I do with any other friend, to share the gospel.

Homosexuality is not like any other sin. Scripture teaches that after much sinning (other sins) God gives up on some people to these degrading passions.

ROM 1:24 ¶ Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

ROM 1:26-27 ¶ For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

 

[rapturefish]

rapturefish,

How would you respond to any friend who sins? Are you surprised by their sinful nature? I am not. I do not like it, but I do not expect a non-Christian to act Christ-like.

I look for opportunities with this friend, just like I do with any other friend, to share the gospel.

I don't believe I disagree in any way about looking for opportunities to share. By all means, do so. Let love and grace be the fragrance that rubs off on others, especially those who are outside the church.

On the one hand, like any person who is a sinner and outside the church I don't expect them to know God or have committed to live His way. Therefore I'm not to go out and hold them to standards or a way of living they have not committed themselves to because their lives are not given over to God.

On the other hand, woe to me if I ever think of homosexuality or any other sin as no longer offensive. It is an abhorrent sin and it should be a stench to me. But to see it on a person who God loves means I do not hate the person but what has a hold on them.

 

[mlqurgw]

I know that I am going against the modern way of thinking that being homosexual is just another type of sin. There are degrees of sin in the Scriptures. Homosexuality is among the worst. It is not only against the Law of God but against the light of nature. I disagree that we are to love them. We are told to love our enemies but never told to love God's enemies. I believe that saying that someone is a homosexual Christian is an oxymoron. You cannot be a homosexual and be a Christian. You may be a former homosexual but to remain one is to deny the truth of God and is not what it is to be a believer. I do expect the unbeliever to live according to truth in the same way that God does. I am not surprised that they don't but it doesn't relieve them of the responsibility to live according to what God has clearly said is right. I will preach the Gospel to a homosexual and pray that God will save them from their sin but I will not associate with them. The idea of loving by taking them into your bosom and sharing your heart with them is not what is meant by love. I grew up in a time when being homosexual was not only considered a sin but it was against the law. I realize that my thinking has been greatly influenced by this and have come to the point that I do not show public hatred for them any longer. Still I do not desire to be friends with a homosexual nor do I desire to be friends with an unrepentent murderer. We should be careful who we associate ourselves with. Paul said that bad communication corrupts good manners. It is a guarantee that you will be infuenced by those who are unbelieving and unrepentant much more than they will be influenced by you.

 

[JJB]

Homosexuality is not like any other sin. Scripture teaches that after much sinning (other sins) God gives up on some people to these degrading passions.

ROM 1:24 ¶ Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

ROM 1:26-27 ¶ For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

HamletsChoice,

Your post hits the nail on the head of what has been rolling around in my head. I've been thinking and praying over these two passages in an attempt to understand if a person gets to the point of homosexuality are they too far gone? Is God done with them?

But with God nothing is impossible, as witnessed by homosexuals who have repented from this sin.

 

[rapturefish]

I know that I am going against the modern way of thinking that being homosexual is just another type of sin. There are degrees of sin in the Scriptures. Homosexuality is among the worst. It is not only against the Law of God but against the light of nature. I disagree that we are to love them. We are told to love our enemies but never told to love God's enemies. I believe that saying that someone is a homosexual Christian is an oxymoron. You cannot be a homosexual and be a Christian. You may be a former homosexual but to remain one is to deny the truth of God and is not what it is to be a believer. I do expect the unbeliever to live according to truth in the same way that God does. I am not surprised that they don't but it doesn't relieve them of the responsibility to live according to what God has clearly said is right. I will preach the Gospel to a homosexual and pray that God will save them from their sin but I will not associate with them. The idea of loving by taking them into your bosom and sharing your heart with them is not what is meant by love. I grew up in a time when being homosexual was not only considered a sin but it was against the law. I realize that my thinking has been greatly influenced by this and have come to the point that I do not show public hatred for them any longer. Still I do not desire to be friends with a homosexual nor do I desire to be friends with an unrepentent murderer. We should be careful who we associate ourselves with. Paul said that bad communication corrupts good manners. It is a guarantee that you will be infuenced by those who are unbelieving and unrepentant much more than they will be influenced by you.

Well I do agree that there are different degrees of sin - stealing is not considered as serious as say murder - yet all are the same when it comes to falling short of God.

I do agree with drawing clear standards of what is right and wrong, and the purpose of the law was to show that, to show everyone that this is what God accepts and pleases him and that is what God detests and hates.

I don't agree with the scenario described in regards with not associating with them. This is not a personal comment, but the description admittedly sounds much like the teachers of the law who chose not to associate with 'sinners' - compare this with how Jesus regularly hung around with tax collectors and 'sinners' and spoke with love to them. He befriended them and because of his love for them they were won over.

I don't believe christians are guaranteed to be influenced by 'sinners' - they will only be so influenced if the Spirit is not full in a christian. A person who is full of the Spirit and power will actually influence those around them as salt and light. If a person does not spend time being replenished in spirit then they begin to operate on empty and they will be more susceptible to influence by the devil.

Christians cannot remain separate to the world and somehow love those people hoping they will be won over by just hearing a bunch of words. Jesus engaged with the lost and was not afraid of being around them, while the pharisees closed themselves off and only condemned them by holding the law against them as a barrier to salvation. Paul too became a gentile to the gentiles that he might win some over. He engaged not only with the local synagogue but also the marketplace. They even had to fight people making them into some of their gods at one stage! If Paul had not enagaged with people and been willing to be amongst them to share the message, then he would've been as inaccesible as the pharisees.

Yes, we guard our hearts and our minds. But we have to engage in the mess that is the battle. Our battle is not against flesh and blood [e.g. homosexuals, thieves, murderers, etc] but against the principalities and powers of this world. Therefore we are not to fight people but be prepared for the spiritual battle that goes on, the spirit that is behind a person. And we cannot engage in battle unless we go to where the 'sinners' are.

 

[McWilliams]

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person". 1 Cor 5:13

Do we then not agree to follow what God has written to us but choose to set up our own rules for life?

 

[rapturefish]

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person". 1 Cor 5:13

Do we then not agree to follow what God has written to us but choose to set up our own rules for life?

Paul clearly makes a dstinction between those inside the church and those outside. The person who is called a brother but practises in such behaviour is the christian who will not repent of their immoral behaviour - this is the worst category of person and they choose not to obey God despite knowing better and having professed to be a christian. They should be cut off until they decide to turn from their ways.

There is a distinction between them and those who are outside the church. Those outside know no better and need the gospel. God doesn't say to stay away from them, they need to be reached out to. Jesus did it. We are to as well.

There are also christians who stumble from time to time. Like any sin, people in the church who sin in the area of sexual immorality are to be restored; the repentant christian can be restored and should be supported, just as the christian who stumbles and drinks too much should be restored and supported. None of us are perfect; scripture says to save those by snatching them out of the fire, and to other show mercy mixed with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

 

[mlqurgw]

Well I do agree that there are different degrees of sin - stealing is not considered as serious as say murder - yet all are the same when it comes to falling short of God.

I do agree with drawing clear standards of what is right and wrong, and the purpose of the law was to show that, to show everyone that this is what God accepts and pleases him and that is what God detests and hates.

I don't agree with the scenario described in regards with not associating with them. This is not a personal comment, but the description admittedly sounds much like the teachers of the law who chose not to associate with 'sinners' - compare this with how Jesus regularly hung around with tax collectors and 'sinners' and spoke with love to them. He befriended them and because of his love for them they were won over.

I don't believe christians are guaranteed to be influenced by 'sinners' - they will only be so influenced if the Spirit is not full in a christian. A person who is full of the Spirit and power will actually influence those around them as salt and light. If a person does not spend time being replenished in spirit then they begin to operate on empty and they will be more susceptible to influence by the devil.

Christians cannot remain separate to the world and somehow love those people hoping they will be won over by just hearing a bunch of words. Jesus engaged with the lost and was not afraid of being around them, while the pharisees closed themselves off and only condemned them by holding the law against them as a barrier to salvation. Paul too became a gentile to the gentiles that he might win some over. He engaged not only with the local synagogue but also the marketplace. They even had to fight people making them into some of their gods at one stage! If Paul had not enagaged with people and been willing to be amongst them to share the message, then he would've been as inaccesible as the pharisees.

Yes, we guard our hearts and our minds. But we have to engage in the mess that is the battle. Our battle is not against flesh and blood [e.g. homosexuals, thieves, murderers, etc] but against the principalities and powers of this world. Therefore we are not to fight people but be prepared for the spiritual battle that goes on, the spirit that is behind a person. And we cannot engage in battle unless we go to where the 'sinners' are.

My comments weren't about sepertating from them in a holier than thou attitude. That is what was condemned in the Pharisees. I fully recognize that there is no sin that doesn't lie in my own heart. Being a friend to sinners in not the same as taking them as your bosom buddies and associating yourself with them. Christ did have compassion on the worst of sinners but He never condoned their sin by association. Of course He couldn't get away from sinners because all but Him were sinners. While He was found among publicans and sinners to the point that He was accused of being one we read nowhere that He was among them for any reason other than to preach the Gospel to them and save them. They didn't become His bosom freinds and remain the same as they were before he came to them. His friendship was a life changing experience.

As far as the guarantee goes, in all my years and experience I have never seen the opposite happen to those who make the worldly their friend. It doesn't matter how "spiritual" you are the lure of sin is too great to habitually surround yourself by it.

 

[McWilliams]

Paul clearly makes a dstinction between those inside the church and those outside. The person who is called a brother but practises in such behaviour is the christian who will not repent of their immoral behaviour - this is the worst category of person and they choose not to obey God despite knowing better and having professed to be a christian. They should be cut off until they decide to turn from their ways.

There is a distinction between them and those who are outside the church. Those outside know no better and need the gospel. God doesn't say to stay away from them, they need to be reached out to. Jesus did it. We are to as well.

There are also christians who stumble from time to time. Like any sin, people in the church who sin in the area of sexual immorality are to be restored; the repentant christian can be restored and should be supported, just as the christian who stumbles and drinks too much should be restored and supported. None of us are perfect; scripture says to save those by snatching them out of the fire, and to other show mercy mixed with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

I don't agree with the scenario described in regards with not associating with them. This is not a personal comment, but the description admittedly sounds much like the teachers of the law who chose not to associate with 'sinners' - compare this with how Jesus regularly hung around with tax collectors and 'sinners' and spoke with love to them. He befriended them and because of his love for them they were won over.

This was my point in my reply and as stated by Paul it is the 'brother' that we are to confront in love to return to fellowship. No point in confronting the unbeliever as he has not yet come to faith in Christ and therefore must repent in faith, allowing the Lord to deal with his sin. The believer who continues to deliberately sin, as in homosexuality, is to be confronted and/or not associated with until he repents of his sin and turns back to Christ!

 

[rapturefish]

My comments weren't about sepertating from them in a holier than thou attitude. That is what was condemned in the Pharisees. I fully recognize that there is no sin that doesn't lie in my own heart. Being a friend to sinners in not the same as taking them as your bosom buddies and associating yourself with them. Christ did have compassion on the worst of sinners but He never condoned their sin by association. Of course He couldn't get away from sinners because all but Him were sinners. While He was found among publicans and sinners to the point that He was accused of being one we read nowhere that He was among them for any reason other than to preach the Gospel to them and save them. They didn't become His bosom freinds and remain the same as they were before he came to them. His friendship was a life changing experience.

As far as the guarantee goes, in all my years and experience I have never seen the opposite happen to those who make the worldly their friend. It doesn't matter how "spiritual" you are the lure of sin is too great to habitually surround yourself by it.

When that is the disctinction made, then yes, I'd agree with you fully on this. This is the paradgim of being in but not of the world - to erach out the lost where they are, yet remaining steadfast in their place with God. It is not wise for a person, no matter how experienced to spend so much time with the lost that they are drained spiritually to the point where they find themselves powerless to sinful temptation. I believe Jesus constantly sought time in prayer alone for that reason.

Scripture tells to be [lit. "be being"] filled with the Spirit (Eph.5:18), and this is meant to be a continuous recharging of the person with the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit's power and presence being sought one can grow dry and in danger of falling to temptation.

 

[rapturefish]

This was my point in my reply and as stated by Paul it is the 'brother' that we are to confront in love to return to fellowship. No point in confronting the unbeliever as he has not yet come to faith in Christ and therefore must repent in faith, allowing the Lord to deal with his sin. The believer who continues to deliberately sin, as in homosexuality, is to be confronted and/or not associated with until he repents of his sin and turns back to Christ!

Absolutely. If a brother is unrepentant and continues to be so then they are to be treated as an unbeliever, that is, they are to be shown the way of repentance. And to me there is a huge difference between the believer who stumbles and repents and the professing believer who falls and does not think they have anything to repent of.

 

[Proeliator]

As far as the guarantee goes, in all my years and experience I have never seen the opposite happen to those who make the worldly their friend. It doesn't matter how "spiritual" you are the lure of sin is too great to habitually surround yourself by it.

There is an old saying, that if you stay in the barber shop, sooner or later your gonna get a haircut.

 

[edie19]

I have friends and family who are gay - a couple of whom are merely acquaintances, one in particular whom I love dearly - I loved him long before I knew he was gay and nothing will ever change that. This is where it gets tough for me. I recognize and agree with Scripture when it says that homosexuality is a sin. However, these men and women are made in God's image - if only for that reason I hope I always treat them with respect. Seems to me that to do otherwise would be disrespecting God's creation, even if they are living in their sinful nature. While most, if not all, of the folks I worship with don't hesitate to call homosexuality the sin that it is, I think we're all respectful.

It's sort of funny - of the folks I work with I'm one of the more socially & politically conservative. Additionally, I'm more conservative (for lack of a better word) regarding faith. Many of the folks I work with fall into the "if it works for you" camp - they don't mind religion as long as it doesn't interfere with their personal desires. They're "good people" and they believe in God. Anyhow - while some of these same folks pride themselves on their tolerance, I've heard them make gay jokes that I would never, could never, say.

Oh - another quick story. Before I attended my current church I attended a United Church of Christ for a while. My parents were UCC - I appreciated their reformed roots - but I left after a few years because their of their liberal social policies. Anyhow - the UCC church I attended recently voted to leave the denomination because of their resolution to endorse gay marriage. They were the 66th church to leave the denomination since the UCC approved the resolution last summer. From what a friend who attends the church told me several other churches have left in the 2 weeks since. The other thing my friend told me - that the younger people of the congregation were the ones who really spoke out against homosexual marriage, the older folks were the ones who wanted to stay with the denomination. I think the young people of our country are starving for good, sound doctrine and theology. I thank God that there are men out there teaching that strong, Biblical doctrine.

This was supposed to be my 2cents worth - but I guess I expanded it to 5cents.

edie