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Snobbery is saying you cannot obtain salvation outside of "our group". We do not teach such. We teach that one does not have to be Orthodox to join into salvation. We believe that God is merciful to mankind not just merciful to the Orthodox.With certain people and groups, there is always that underlying snobbery of thinking they are the apple of God's eye, they are the Church, no the Christ's Church. Others, well, they're not quite right.
So it goes. C/U on the roundabout.
bornofGod888 said:I'm assuming that you meant to say "nuance" of scripture, but your typo really made me laugh in that it's right on the mark. IOW, I feel that a lot of people who profess to know Christ find the scriptures to be a "nuisance" in that they (the scriptures) refute their unscriptural beliefs. As such, I'd say that the scriptures themselves are non-negotiable.
QueSi said:I will agree that they all have the same main doctrine, as is present in most all religions. Do you not accept that as the greatest of all laws to be followed?
Snobbery is saying you cannot obtain salvation outside of "our group". We do not teach such. We teach that one does not have to be Orthodox to join into salvation. We believe that God is merciful to mankind not just merciful to the Orthodox.
So what if you're in communion with your group. So are JWs, LDSs, and numerous other groups. So what?
The question is still what doctrine(s) are necessary to be saved, that are non-negotiable?
Scott4Him said:To love God and love others are the two greatest commandments.
To properly follow those commandments requires to be freed from our sin. Apart from Christ, we will continue in sin.
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. (Romans 7:18 ESV)
While I feel that I appreciate Rev. Randy's thinking about that, I have to agree with you that it doesn't seem relevant to the issue we've been discussing.Perhaps it is relevant, however, if he means that he has no way of coming up with a firm answer. After all, most other contributors seemed to struggle with it, too.
That's a question that can only truly be answered by God. When man answers it he's playing God or setting limits for God.It's no more than a cop out to hide behind your bishop's skirts, regardless of how far back in time you believe they stretch. (mine go to Adam/Eve, like yours) Or naïvety at its worse.
What are the non-negotiable(s)?
That's a question that can only truly be answered by God. When man answers it he's playing God or setting limits for God.
Now if you want to know what's non-negotiable to be an Orthodox, that's answerable. But that would not be setting the limits of Salvation.
Sorry, I'm not a Roman Catholic nor a Protestant. I don't feel everything needs to be written in stone When it comes to explaining the unexplainable God I serve.
You may place me firmly in the "I do not claim to know", category as it's the only truthful answer. The other answers are speculation at best. I'd rather be a cop-out than a liar when it comes to speaking for God.
The problem is:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:89
Do we need to know what Paul was talking about?
Do we need to know? I suggest it would be very helpful but do we need to understand Paul to enter into salvation?
No, I do not believe we must own or even have read the Bible to enter into salvation. The Bible does not save. But it is very useful for those who have entered into salvation. For those who have not, it's just a book of words.
It's no more than a cop out to hide behind your bishop's skirts
Now that's a different question. I think it would be very helpful to do just that. But not a "necessity" unto salvation. Does the sin of preaching another gospel fall upon the head of the preacher or the hearer? That's a question, not a statement.Knowing is not necessary understanding--or rather, I should say "comprehending."
I don't fully comprehend, for instance, "I and the Father are One."
But I know that according to scripture, Christ stated it, therefore if someone teaches, "Christ and the Father are not One," I will reject that teaching.
So my question is, don't we need to identify the gospel preached by the apostles in order to reject "any other gospel?"
That's a question that can only truly be answered by God. When man answers it he's playing God or setting limits for God.
Now if you want to know what's non-negotiable to be an Orthodox, that's answerable. But that would not be setting the limits of Salvation.
Sorry, I'm not a Roman Catholic nor a Protestant. I don't feel everything needs to be written in stone When it comes to explaining the unexplainable God I serve.
You may place me firmly in the "I do not claim to know", category as it's the only truthful answer. The other answers are speculation at best. I'd rather be a cop-out than a liar when it comes to speaking for God.
I really think you've got to get beyond making every issue turn on your resentment against bishops and priests. It only serves to obscure the bigger issue.
Knowing is not necessary understanding--or rather, I should say "comprehending."
I don't fully comprehend, for instance, "I and the Father are One."
But I know that according to scripture, Christ stated it, therefore if someone teaches, "Christ and the Father are not One," I will reject that teaching.
So my question is, don't we need to identify the gospel preached by the apostles in order to reject "any other gospel?"
We got that. There's the horizontal; you're in communion with other like-minded ones. Just like RCers are. Just like Anglicans are. Just like SDAers are. Just like JWs are. Just like the Boy Scouts are.
There's also the vertical. You don't know what you (your community) must do to be saved. No problem by me.
May I ask what this means to you?We got that. There's the horizontal; you're in communion with other like-minded ones. Just like RCers are. Just like Anglicans are. Just like SDAers are. Just like JWs are. Just like the Boy Scouts are.
There's also the vertical. You don't know what you (your community) must do to be saved. No problem by me.
Who invented this vertical vs horizontal thing, and why should we be guided by it?
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