What do you think? translation question.

[Xeno.of.athens]

Here are the Ten Commandments from Exodus, in a revision of an existing English translation, tell me what you think, please.

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,

• 2 "I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 "You shall have no other gods before me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I YHWH your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
  
• 7 "You shall not take the name of YHWH your God in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
  
• 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to YHWH your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; 11 for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore YHWH blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.
  
• 12 "Honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which YHWH your God gives you.
  
• 13 "You shall not kill.
  
• 14 "You shall not commit adultery.
  
• 15 "You shall not steal.
  
• 16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
  
• 17 "You shall not covet your neighbour's house;
• you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbour's."

 

[KevinT]

Here are the Ten Commandments from Exodus, in a revision of an existing English translation, tell me what you think, please.

I just compared your modified translation to Young's Literal Translation.

5 you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I YHWH your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, visiting the iniquity

I found other translations use zealous, or jealous here. Interesting difference.

• 13 "You shall not kill.

Using "kill" instead of murder makes me uncomfortable. There are times when humans have to kill, and God even required it in certain circumstances. So to then have in the 10 commandments a counter to this seems internally inconsistent.

Best wishes,
KT

 

[KevinT]

Then there is the GenZ version of this.

Gen Z: Exodus 20​

1.​

So, like, God totally said all this cool stuff, like,

2.​

I'm the Almighty, your God, who rescued you from Egypt, from a life of slavery.

3.​

Don't put any other gods before me, period.

4.​

Don't go making any carved statues or any images of stuff in the sky, on the ground, or underwater.

5.​

Yo, don't go worshipping other gods or being their servants, 'cause I, the LORD your God, am like super possessive. I keep an eye on those who hate me, and I make sure their kids and grandkids pay for their wrongdoings for, like, the next three or four generations.

6.​

And like, being super kind to thousands of peeps who like, totally love me and do whatever I say.

7.​

Don't use God's name as a meaningless phrase, because God won't let you get away with it.

8.​

Yo, don't forget to vibe on the sabbath day and keep it super sacred.

9.​

Yo, work hard and grind for six days, and complete all your tasks, fam:

10.​

Btw, the seventh day is, like, the chill day of the LORD your God. You and your squad, including your fam, your helpers, and even your pets, gotta take a break and not hustle or do any tasks, yo. Also, any outsiders who are hangin' with you should join in on the downtime within your crib.

11.​

So, like, God totally created everything we see - the sky, the earth, the ocean, and all the living things - in just six days. And then, on the seventh day, He was like, 'I'm gonna take a break'. And because of that, He blessed the seventh day and made it all holy and stuff.

12.​

Respect your mom and dad, so you can live that long and blessed life on the land God gave you.

13.​

Don't take somebody's life, not cool.

14.​

Don't cheat on your bae.

15.​

Don't be a thief, fam.

16.​

Don't go spreading fake news about your homie.

17.​

Don't be jelly of your neighbor's crib, don't be thirstin' after your neighbor's bae, nor his homie, nor his girl, nor his whip, nor his ride, nor anything else that's your neighbor's.


KT

 

[RandyPNW]

Here are the Ten Commandments from Exodus, in a revision of an existing English translation, tell me what you think, please.

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,

• 2 "I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 "You shall have no other gods before me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I YHWH your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
• 7 "You shall not take the name of YHWH your God in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
• 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to YHWH your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; 11 for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore YHWH blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.
• 12 "Honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which YHWH your God gives you.
• 13 "You shall not kill.
• 14 "You shall not commit adultery.
• 15 "You shall not steal.
• 16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
• 17 "You shall not covet your neighbour's house;
• you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbour's."

It isn't of great concern to me, but I view the 9th and 10th here, "you shall not covet," as a single and last commandment. At the beginning, I view "have no other gods" as separate from "do not make images."

I realize that some view it this way and others view it that way. It boils down to the same thing--don't be idolatrous and don't covet.

I find 9 out of 10 commandments relevant today, though under a new covenant. The commandment, "remember the Sabbath day," belongs under the old covenant, the Law.

Christians, especially Gentile Christians, have no need to observe a holiday that was given only to the Hebrew people under the Law. If Jewish believers observe Sabbath today, it should only be out of respect for their unbelieving brethren.

Christians have their own holiday, normally Sunday and in some cases, Saturday. So we don't miss out on the blessings of any of the commandments. Besides, our works are no longer tainted, which is why God called for a rest day at all under the old covenant.

 

[KevinT]

I find 9 out of 10 commandments relevant today, though under a new covenant. The commandment, "remember the Sabbath day," belongs under the old covenant, the Law.

Let's just rename the 10 commandments to be the 9 commandments then.

KT

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let's just rename the 10 commandments to be the 9 commandments then.

KT

Yes, no such teaching in scripture. God numbered them by design

Exo 34:28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

Ironically the one commandment He said to Remember is the one everyone teaches to forget.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, no such teaching in scripture. God numbered them by design

Exo 34:28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

Ironically the one commandment He said to Remember is the one everyone teaches to forget.

Sabbath day, on which rest from servile work is prescribed, that we may worship God with greater fervour. Saturday was kept holy by the Jews, in honour of God’s resting. The apostles have authorised us to keep Sunday instead, to commemorate the mysteries of Christ’s resurrection, &c.

 

[KevinT]

The apostles have authorised us to keep Sunday instead, to commemorate the mysteries of Christ’s resurrection, &c.

There is mention of gatherings of the disciples on the 1st day of the week, but it doesn't specify it as being a day of worship, as compared to communal gathering. It was the 2nd century -- long after the death of Christ's apostles -- that Sunday as a day of worship became formalized. Here is a neutral source discussing this. Here is another site from a Sabbatarian author who quotes Thomas Aquinas on this issue:

The classic explanation, as stated by Thomas Aquinas, is that “the observance of the Lord’s day took the place of the observance of the Sabbath not by virtue of the [Biblical] precept but by the institution of the Church.”1 In other words, the adoption of Sunday observance has been traditionally attributed to ecclesiastical authority rather than to Biblical or apostolic precepts. This has been the position of most historians who have studied the question.

But I suspect that this is getting off track from the original point of the OP.

KT

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sabbath day, on which rest from servile work is prescribed, that we may worship God with greater fervour. Saturday was kept holy by the Jews, in honour of God’s resting. The apostles have authorised us to keep Sunday instead, to commemorate the mysteries of Christ’s resurrection, &c.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but the apostles do not have authority over God because they are not God, but were humans and servants of Christ. A servant is never greater than their master. John 13:16

No where in scripture does the apostles teach not to obey God's commandments. They taught we ought to obey God over man. Acts 5:29 and keeping God's commandments is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 why the Sabbath was kept decades after the cross for both Jews and Gentiles Acts 18:4 The Sabbath is a commandment of God, thus saith the Lord.

Your church does not teach what you're teaching. They teach Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic church, not found in scripture.

Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman catholic church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.

Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16. Is we yield ourselves servants to God keep the Sabbath day holy, if we serve Rome keep Sunday.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not

Apostle means messenger, could it be that the Apostles conveyed a message from YHWH?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Apostle means messenger, could it be that the Apostles conveyed a message from YHWH?

A messenger from God would never go against what God commands Isa 8:20

According to scripture only God can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 there is no thus saith the Lord not to keep the Sabbath commandment in all of scripture. All of the thus saith the Lords on the Sabbath and there are a lot are for us to keep and not profane.

The apostles never taught not to keep God's commandments. This is nowhere in scriptures, arguments from silence while ignoring every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God we are told to live by Mat 4:4 does not seem like a good idea, imho. But we are given free will.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A messenger from God would never go against what God commands

One might think that you are an apostle since you speak with such authority about what God would do.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

One might think that you are an apostle since you speak with such authority about what God would do.

Not my authority I just believe the scriptures. Isa 8:20 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19

 

[RandyPNW]

Let's just rename the 10 commandments to be the 9 commandments then.

KT

The 10 Commandments is the proper name for those Commandments grouped together as a subset of the entire Law. The Law has perhaps 613 requirements. 10 of those belong to the "10 Commandments."

Christians have historically utilized the 10 Commandments as a moral rule that is applicable under the New Covenant of Christ. But the Sabbath requirement, historically, has not been required of Christians. Sunday worship is *not* Sabbath observance.

If you're going to impose the weekly Sabbath requirement upon Christians, why not add the 7 year requirement to release Jewish slaves, or the 50th year requirement to release Jewish lands? You see where this goes?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The 10 Commandments is the proper name for those Commandments grouped together as a subset of the entire Law. The Law has perhaps 613 requirements. 10 of those belong to the "10 Commandments."

Christians have historically utilized the 10 Commandments as a moral rule that is applicable under the New Covenant of Christ. But the Sabbath requirement, historically, has not been required of Christians. Sunday worship is *not* Sabbath observance.

Yet God said after He wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments- He added "no more" Deut 5:22

There is no mention of 613 laws, the only number God gave were the ones He personally wrote and personally spoke and He gave that number 10, not 9. He has all authority Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18. I know of no one who has more authority than God than to change His times and laws Dan 7:25. whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16. we should obey God based on His Authroity and He is the only God that has the power to create heaven and earth which is revealed in the Sabbath commandment Exo 20:11 but if we want to follow a commandment of Rome, that's a choice.

God never called the Sabbath, the Sabbath of the Jews- He called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13, made for man (not Jew) Mark 2:27 and for everyone Isa 56:1-6 that all flesh (His saints) will continue for worship for eternity, not just Jews Isa 66:22-23

 

[RandyPNW]

Yet God said after He wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments- He added "no more" Deut 5:22

Saying "no more" means to you the same thing as, "The 10 Commandments are to apply after Messiah comes and dies, to Jews and to non-Jews alike?"

There is no mention of 613 laws

There is no mention of appllying the 10 Commandments to either Gentiles or Christians--only to the Hebrews who were being placed under the covenant of Law. Once the Law failed, that covenant could either be reinstated or no longer stated. The Law failed, and it was retained on some level after the Babylonian destruction. And it was reinstated more fully after the Persian Restoration.

But when Jesus died, the Law failed again, and was never again reinstated or even kept in any measure. The moral requirements under the Law were re-channeled through the New Covenant of Christ, which required neither temple, nor priest, nor sacrifice, nor any of the requirements of the Law of Moses.

Only the general morality required under the Law was retained, since it had been given for all of mankind for all time at the creation of Man, who was created in the image of God. Being made in God's image, after His likeness, is the universal Law for mankind, Jewish or not.

, the only number God gave were the ones He personally wrote and personally spoke and He gave that number 10, not 9. He has all authority Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18. I know of no one who has more authority than God than to change His times and laws Dan 7:25. whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16.

Rom 6.16 does not reinstate the Law of Moses for Christianity! The theology of the NT epistles clearly rejects any sense that we are under the covenant of Mosaic Law! Galatians makes this as clear as possible. Hebrews does, as well.

Paul never says we are under all 10 Commandments. He never says we are obligated to obey Sabbath Law. You are misrepresenting Christian theology here.

God never called the Sabbath, the Sabbath of the Jews

He didn't have to give Sabbath Law an official title that you suggest He give. The Sabbath Law was given to the Hebrews who were under the Law of Moses. That is a "Sabbath of the Jews," if you will? A particular title, existing or not, is not determinative in that regard. The fact God said it was primarily for Hebrews is, in fact, determinative.

You're going to have to become an OT Hebrew in the past if you want to be under the Sabbath Law. Otherwise, you misrepresent Christian theology, as stated in the NT Scriptures.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The apostles have authorised us to keep Sunday instead, to commemorate the mysteries of Christ’s resurrection, &c.

Where is that in scripture?? Sunday is not the Sabbath...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The commandment, "remember the Sabbath day," belongs under the old covenant, the Law.

Christians, especially Gentile Christians, have no need to observe a holiday that was given only to the Hebrew people under the Law.

Except Yeshua said that the Sabbath was made for Adam (man)...Adam was not a Jew...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Saying "no more" means to you the same thing as, "The 10 Commandments are to apply after Messiah comes and dies, to Jews and to non-Jews alike?"

There is no mention of appllying the 10 Commandments to either Gentiles or Christians--only to the Hebrews who were being placed under the covenant of Law. Once the Law failed, that covenant could either be reinstated or no longer stated. The Law failed, and it was retained on some level after the Babylonian destruction. And it was reinstated more fully after the Persian Restoration.

But when Jesus died, the Law failed again, and was never again reinstated or even kept in any measure. The moral requirements under the Law were re-channeled through the New Covenant of Christ, which required neither temple, nor priest, nor sacrifice, nor any of the requirements of the Law of Moses.

Only the general morality required under the Law was retained, since it had been given for all of mankind for all time at the creation of Man, who was created in the image of God. Being made in God's image, after His likeness, is the universal Law for mankind, Jewish or not.

Rom 6.16 does not reinstate the Law of Moses for Christianity! The theology of the NT epistles clearly rejects any sense that we are under the covenant of Mosaic Law! Galatians makes this as clear as possible. Hebrews does, as well.

Paul never says we are under all 10 Commandments. He never says we are obligated to obey Sabbath Law. You are misrepresenting Christian theology here.

He didn't have to give Sabbath Law an official title that you suggest He give. The Sabbath Law was given to the Hebrews who were under the Law of Moses. That is a "Sabbath of the Jews," if you will? A particular title, existing or not, is not determinative in that regard. The fact God said it was primarily for Hebrews is, in fact, determinative.

You're going to have to become an OT Hebrew in the past if you want to be under the Sabbath Law. Otherwise, you misrepresent Christian theology, as stated in the NT Scriptures.

God called the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath that He personally wrote "My commandments" Exo 20:6 Moses is not God.

I believe when Christ said everyone- He meant just that. If you disagree, that's not an argument with me.

Christ wants to bless everyone, He wants everyone to do righteousness, to join themselves to Him, to be His servant and love His name- not just the Jews

Salvation for the Gentiles​

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

2. Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Not my authority I just believe the scriptures. Isa 8:20 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19

Holy scripture has more to say than the passages you cited say.

2Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendour that the Israelites could not look at Moses' face because of its brightness, fading as this was, 8 will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendour? 9 For if there was splendour in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendour. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had splendour has come to have no splendour at all, because of the splendour that surpasses it. 11 For if what faded away came with splendour, what is permanent must have much more splendour.​

There's a message here about the Law carved on stone, which appears to be a reference to the ten commandments.

Now if the ministration of death: he means the former law, which by giving them a greater knowledge, and not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death, was notwithstanding glorious, accompanied with miracles on Mount Sinai, and so that the Israelites, when Moses came down from the mountain, could not bear the glory of his countenance, which he was forced to cover with a veil, when he spoke to them. Shall not the ministration of the Spirit in the new law, which worketh our sanctification and salvation, abound with much greater glory? especially since the old law was to be made void, and pass away. --- ​

​

Neither was that glorified, or to be esteemed glorious, in comparison of the new law, the blessings of the new so far surpassing those of the old law. (Witham) --- ​

​

If the law of Moses, written on tables of stone, which was only able to cause death, inasmuch as it gave us light sufficient to know what was right, though it did not give us strength or graces to comply with the obligations imposed by it; if this law, nevertheless, was accompanied with so much glory, that Moses was obliged to put a veil over his face, what must we think of the ministry of the Spirit, and of the glorious duties of the apostleship? How ought our glory to be manifest, an who is fit for such an undertaking. If I thus extol the excellency of my ministry, do not imagine that I attribute anything to myself. I am unworthy of this office, which so far surpasses that of Moses, that his glory (ver. 10.) could not be truly called glory, when compared with this of ours, which so far excels his. (Calmet) --- ​

​

The letter of the New Testament also, not truly taken or expounded by the Spirit of God, which is in his Church, must in the same manner be said to kill. See St. Augustine, serm. 70. & 100. de tempore. & l. de spirt. & lit. chap. 5. 6. & dein.​