What do you think about Emo's?

Did somebody say Elmo?





All I know is the My Chemical Romance is like the ultimate emo band. And I like MCR. Their music is very emotional.

I think labeling people as emo/punk/goth/prep/whatever is really dumb. I remember there was such a fuss in high school about how people dressed and what category that put them in. People waste FAR too much time trying to paint themselves and others into a corner, as if fashion someone dictates a person's worth and personality. It's really stupid.

As for personality, again, it's not really fair to assume that just because someone's kind of sad or quiet that they fall into a certain category. I've had friends in many of these different "groups" and they were all great people that often got misjudged because of their style or personality.

Thunder Peel said:

I think labeling people as emo/punk/goth/prep/whatever is really dumb. I remember there was such a fuss in high school about how people dressed and what category that put them in. People waste FAR too much time trying to paint themselves and others into a corner, as if fashion someone dictates a person's worth and personality. It's really stupid.

As for personality, again, it's not really fair to assume that just because someone's kind of sad or quiet that they fall into a certain category. I've had friends in many of these different "groups" and they were all great people that often got misjudged because of their style or personality.

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I agree. It is pretty stupid to judge people based on superficial things.

in my opinion anything that doesn't glorify God is not of God in the first place...whether they be emo or any other social outcast....as far as i know emo are emotional people hence emo...but i don't know that culture so i really cant say...but as far as what type of music suggests that you cut yourself, it isnt from God then...because i know our heavenly father would never encourage harming our body...growing up i was basically a loner..not much of an outcast but just someone who didnt like to be around a lot of people...im still that way...i have many friends but as far as being a party type person thats just not me....but when you see a person or group of people that are into whatever it may be...always ask yourself is what they are doing glorifying God...if not then i guess they are of their father..the devil

E.C. said:

Goths are more real than emos. One thing I do when I'm getting food at the local mall is I people watch and the difference between emos and goths is that emos are people that don't have the psychological scars or angst needed to be goth. The goths have a reason to be depressed, the emos are just overdramatic.

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Agreed, at least to a point. One doesn't necessarily need to be psychologically scarred to be Goth, but that's a minor issue.

The bigger difference is that Goths are introspective and intellectual in their outlook on things, whereas 'Emo' kids are pretty much doing it for the attention. Which is why they come off as so annoying.


However, there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding 'Emo' stuff. Mainly because the term means nothing anymore. It's a misappropriated term. The music of that subculture is not Emo. The fashion look is not Emo. In other words, it's so completely divorced from its origins in such a way it would be like me looking at a fish fillet and calling it a hamburger.

I will now fully explain what I mean here. Lots of genre stuff ahead. I feel it's easier to describe these things as an outcome of the music side, as that is the primary instigator in all this (much as it is with media perceptions of Goths).

'Emo' as a music style and as a subculture originated way way back in the 1980s [secret government employees had nothing to do with it, though...heh heh, nevermind], as a short-shorthand for Emotive Hardcore (which was shortened to Emocore and finally to Emo), a subgenre of Punk that itself had close ties to the Post-Hardcore scene - I mean real Post-Hardcore here; that term has undergone the same media raping as Emo has. Bands like Rites of Spring and Fugazi are often credited as being the earliest to have that label applied to them, and likewise, most of the earliest 'Emo' bands are also generally Post-Hardcore acts as well (although the reverse isn't true at all - Hüsker Dü is not even remotely Emo, although it would be fairly accurate to call them Post-Hardcore). And like I mentioned, they are genuinely part of the Punk family of genres, so they actually sound like it. In the early 90s a more aggressive form emerged where most of the lyrics were screamed over the music, hence the term Screamo (again, this is not related to bands nowadays that are called that).

In the 90s, a division came between the early group and a newer one that had sprung up. This newer group was popular among the college-age hipster crowd, and consisted of bands like Sunny Day Real Estate and Jimmy Eat World (still in their early days here). These acts were inspired by the original Emotive Hardcore stuff, but as they were also Post-Grunge-ish acts and involved in the larger Indie scene, the proper term is actually Post-Emo Indie Rock or some derivative therein*. And that's where this gets hairy.

*this is what I'll be referring to the 90s scene as; I'm guessing it's more of a term used in retrospect, and that back then it was also just simply referred to as 'Emo' by those involved, with those dissenting being the ones from the early crowd, which were eventually far less numerous.

The subculture that grew up around that new mutation was still introspective and intellectualized about this, but their appearance was still pretty much in line with your standard Grunge fan - flannel, jeans, although this is where the obsession with black horn-rimmed glasses and hackeysacks probably came from. This form of the music and subculture never reached mainstream popularity, and while it does still exist, it's not very visible anymore. At one time it was semi-notable, but that time was gone by about 1999.

In the early 00s, as Post-Grunge was starting to become a genre on life support, the rise of Pop-Punk and the continuing dominance of Nü-Metal created a hole that needed to be filled. In comes Jimmy Eat World with Bleed American (the album that was renamed to a self-titled in the wake of 9/11 but had its original title restored on the reissue put out this past April or May) - which is nothing like their previous material AT ALL. With that album they gained a lot of mainstream success, but the sound was pretty much standard AOR-esque alternative rock. However, because of the fact that they were previously associated with the Post-Emo scene in the 90s, the 'Emo' tag stuck with them. This caused the music media to incorrectly start labeling bands that sounded like or toured simultaneously with post-Bleed American Jimmy Eat World as Emo, a misappropriation like the one they had pulled with the perception of Goth being construed of Marilyn Manson and Korn fans that shop at Hot Topic (the proper term for them being mallgoth or faux goth depending on who you ask - that's giving it too much credit, IMO; as far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't be called anything with 'goth' in it because they aren't in the slightest). Over time, this gradually included bands that mixed in the 'I hate my life, I hate my parents, I hate my friends, and I even hate my cat' mentality that a lot of Nü-Metal had forced into the mainstream with the aforementioned AOR-like rock. Kind of like saying - it sounds like Pop-Punk mixed with some Nickelback with the lyrical themes of any freakin' band that plays at Ozzfest. Somewhere in here you could also point to when Dashboard Confessional and Something Corporate got popular, since their lyrics were more emotionally-charged than the typical Pop-Punk at the time (and they at least are partially responsible for the music with nasally vocals associated with O.C.-spawned poor-little-rich-white-trash melodrama found in the mainstream now; and yes, I mean that with as much snarkiness as I can muster).

Due to the 80s retro revival look that was gaining popularity in the Pop-Punk crowd, this merged with it and went way overboard, creating the current 'Emo' fashion style of bright neon colors against black, overtight jeans, etc. At this point I don't even acknowledge the look or music as Emo at all. And partially due to the themes gleaned from Nü-Metal, which by 2004 was pretty much dying in the mainstream, and partially due to the superficial anti-conformity of the Pop-Punk scene, you get the whiny, cutting-prone, attention-starved 'Emo kid' mentality as it exists today.

The apathy toward it, however, and the usage of the term 'Emo' as a slur toward anything remotely expressive is again a semi-product of the Nü-Metal scene, although this time it's the über-macho side of it, which seems like it practically exchanged the term 'gay' for 'emo' in putting something down. Pretty soon it spread to the mainstream MySpace teenybopper crowd, which is why you get people totally missing the mark on upteen million bands and people - because said teenyboppers don't know what the heck they're even talking about anymore when they use the term. This is why you can see traditional Goths getting called emo (in much the same way you see Nightwish and Within Temptation incorrectly being called Goth Rock bands), or things as ridiculous as seeing Green Day being called emo, or people being called emo for showing the least bit of emotional upset, with or without the attention-whoring, even when that upset is legitimate. In a way, it's a stark reaction to the whole 'getting in touch with your inner self' touchy-feely crap when people are all therapied out (and I'm talking from the position of someone who did have to take anti-depressants and go to therapy at a couple different times during High School - this was because of issues arising from suffering severe panic attacks in the middle of class on multiple occasions).

twistedsketch said:

I hate cutting and everything that encourages cutting.

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The cutting part really disgusts me. As a person who has really suffered with bi-polar and disthymia and gone through the disease (yes disease) of cutting to ease pain (not anymore as I actually took steps and saw a counselor, just one Twisted lol, and got help to channel my frustration differently) I think anything that glorifies, encourages or condones cutting is horrendous. Anyone who uses it to get attention is pretty low on my respect scale. I dont care what theyre called

I used to be goth, and let me tell you, emo is not Goth. Emo is Goth-lite. I think goth is a misunderstood sub-culture. It's really a life-style and a fashion scene tied up with very eclectic music. Emo is just a scene tied into 1 type of music. Yeah, there was some sad goth songs but there was a lot of dance music. It was also a very female lead movement, unlike emo, which is mostly a musical subculture led by men. There was a lot of female empowerment in the early gothic movement. Goth did change over time to become more like what emo is today and of course it's lost a lot of its fun, but the best club I ever went to was a goth club. They had a real good sense of humor about themselves. Which is what is lacking in emo, but I think it's lacking because of the teenagers involved. There are very few teenagers that are self-aware enough to know that they are ridiculous.

Bellicus said:

A+ to Qyot for that post. You seem to know a lot about it.



I can't imagine that anyone hurt themselves physically to try to look cool or anything. That is really unlikely. And maybe it sometimes is something that young teens use to get attention, but then it should also be taken really seriously, cause what would be the next thing they do to get attention? If it is a try to get attention, then it is also a cry for help that should not meet deaf ears, and specially not bullying and hate. What is low on my respect scale is those that care so little about others, that they could talk down on someone with problems like that.

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There ARE people who use things like cutting to get attention. Of course if it was a real cry for help I would do all I can to help them

Quirk said:

The "look" is overdone. ....

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Agreed, its not becoming much of an expression or as orginal anymore. Or might I say independent.

Thunder Peel said:

I think labeling people as emo/punk/goth/prep/whatever is really dumb. I remember there was such a fuss in high school about how people dressed and what category that put them in. ......

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Very true Thunder and I was quite annoyed at my co-workers for mislabeling another co-worker, they just never got it and always labeled him as goth. Once someones daughter became Emo and straightedge, the guy started saying the term. My boss asked the guy if he was ELMO. I laughed. Once they started having some kind of association, they began to understand him a little better. But a lot of people can't relate, so they create labels.

But some people create these labels for themselves too. The guy I was talking about didn't like being called Emo, but called it punkish. Although he would say things that sounded original, I later found out it's part of the following. He said when he chose a girlfriend she had to wear certain clothes, certain hairstyle, listen to certain music and hang with certain people.

Qyöt27;49794459 said:

Agreed, at least to a point. One doesn't necessarily need to be psychologically scarred to be Goth, but that's a minor issue.

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Qyöt27, thanks for your explaination. The guy that has introduced me to the culture did it through music (we worked together). He burned some CDs he thought I'd like. Copeland, Sunny Day Real Estate, Bright Eyes, Squarepusher...When I was younger I listened to the PIXIES, SugarCubes and stuff that wasn't mainstream. Listening to some of these bands has opened me to a genre that fits more my style in music. If I was younger I would definitly experiment with Scene Hair, there's some really nice styles. Some of it reminds me of styles I saw in the bigger cities of Japan with younger girls.
Japanese Horror films also seems to be part of some of the subculture. I wish I had more associations though, my experience is only through this guy and seeing his friends through myspace or what he shares.

sampa said:

Qyöt27, thanks for your explaination. The guy that has introduced me to the culture did it through music (we worked together). He burned some CDs he thought I'd like. Copeland, Sunny Day Real Estate, Bright Eyes, Squarepusher...When I was younger I listened to the PIXIES, SugarCubes and stuff that wasn't mainstream. Listening to some of these bands has opened me to a genre that fits more my style in music. If I was younger I would definitly experiment with Scene Hair, there's some really nice styles. Some of it reminds me of styles I saw in the bigger cities of Japan with younger girls.

Japanese Horror films also seems to be part of some of the subculture. I wish I had more associations though, my experience is only through this guy and seeing his friends through myspace or what he shares.

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I'm really only repeating what I've heard and observed. I'm not associated with the 'emo' subculture at all, aside from liking Rites of Spring (which means I prefer the original stuff - although Samiam's "Sunshine", Breaking Pangaea's "Wedding Dress", and a some Copeland material are slightly newer songs that I like to listen to, and may cross into that 90s-centric scene if I had to categorize it).

Goth, on the other hand, is something I'm much more connected to, as it and Industrial rank as two of my favorite types of music.

I think its an identity crisis. I mean.., how else to explain guys wearing girly pants, wanting to overly "emote" and probably pee sitting down..

little_tigress said:

most emos are psychologically healthy people who just like to rebel from the norm in appearance or taste in music/movies. same deal with goths.

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I agree.

That said, I have no problems with those with mental issues. I'm not a huge fan of emos though... Can't stand the music or the fashion sense. That is not to say that I have a problem with the "real thing" as explained above. But really the stuff that is called emo today...so that I don't have to begin making the post complicated.

GQ Chris said:

I think its an identity crisis. I mean.., how else to explain guys wearing girly pants, wanting to overly "emote" and probably pee sitting down..

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Emo has pretty much died down here. Thank goodness for that!

BeckyH said:

Emo has pretty much died down here. Thank goodness for that!

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I am so jealous