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Yes, I agree. That's one thing I don't like about the Lord of the Rings - there's a little bit of God, but not enough. In the fantasy that I'm working on, there is a God, and he is a more active in the world. Also, there is a savior and a need to be saved. So in a way, it's sort of a parallel universe.Lubiana said:Elves don't annoy me- but they HAVE been done to death. What generally annoys me in Sci Fi or Fantasy is how they ignore God (which is obvious for a Christian). I'll tell you one thing that I get really tired of seeing in stories and in movies. They have these fierce looking monsters with huge teeth and claws - and the things do their killing with guns. Dosen't make sense to me. If they have these natural weapons (teeth, claws, long tails, etc.) why don't they use them?
Mr_Hursh said:I am currently working on a fantasy world, and I was just wondering what people - Christians mostly - like or don't like about the Fantasy Genre. What would you change, remove, or add?
Personally, I would add more detail and decision - just to name a few.
What are your thoughts?
LadyNRA said:Depends on the type of fantasy you are writing. I have been reading fantasy and sword and sorcery/heroic fantasy since I was about 13. And though I read far more Christian based novels now, I still read the above books.
In this day and age it will be hard to come up with a plot that hasn't been done a million times before. So what saves it is often the characters, the culture of the world you create, and the way folks inter-relate in your story. Quirky characters can make a fantasy story fun.
Hope some of this is of use. And good luck.
LOL!!! How did you know!!!??? I can't avoid cliches. It's how I work them that counts I guess. I don't like working with stereotypical characters. I will have characters who are like Joxer on Xena perhaps or somewhat heavy-set (but still having a talent for something) or average looking or even plain looking. I enjoy working with the sidekicks...they can make or break a story. Also I cheat a lot and use established universes (fanfic). Someone may throw out a plot bunny and I'll run with it if I don't have my own ideas. I like to show established characters in ways that people haven't seen them before. Perhaps revealing a side of themselves that no-one suspected while still keeping them in-character. Not always easy but I've been told I've managed pretty good. With original characters and stories, anything you see in other people (quirks/foibles/frailties) can be used to craft them into someone memorable. Then, even with a cliched plot, you can make the story interesting because how these characters deal with the quest can make it fresh. Now, mind you, this is just my opinion. I like action/adventure AND good characters no matter how common the plot may be. But to me at least, it's the characters that make all the difference in making the story memorable.Mr_Hursh said:Yes I know! It seems like everthing has been thought of! Nothing new under the sun, I guess...
But knowing that, the trick, of course, becomes to say something - even if it has already been said plenty of times before - in a different way. So that's what I'm working on. I think I have been able to do it in some aspects, but it seems though that it is impossible to 'disguise' many things. Like, evil is always evil, (I don't go much for they 'grey area' stuff) and you're always going to be fighting it.
Anyway, I see you are a creative writer, how do you avoid cliches?
Hee hee... I read it in your profileLadyNRA said:LOL!!! How did you know!!!??? I can't avoid cliches. It's how I work them that counts I guess. I don't like working with stereotypical characters. I will have characters who are like Joxer on Xena perhaps or somewhat heavy-set (but still having a talent for something) or average looking or even plain looking. I enjoy working with the sidekicks...they can make or break a story. Also I cheat a lot and use established universes (fanfic). Someone may throw out a plot bunny and I'll run with it if I don't have my own ideas. I like to show established characters in ways that people haven't seen them before. Perhaps revealing a side of themselves that no-one suspected while still keeping them in-character. Not always easy but I've been told I've managed pretty good. With original characters and stories, anything you see in other people (quirks/foibles/frailties) can be used to craft them into someone memorable. Then, even with a cliched plot, you can make the story interesting because how these characters deal with the quest can make it fresh. Now, mind you, this is just my opinion. I like action/adventure AND good characters no matter how common the plot may be. But to me at least, it's the characters that make all the difference in making the story memorable.
Mr_Hursh said:By the way, do any of you guys know where you could actually find a book or something with common or uncommon fantasy plots?
I completely agree with you. Sometimes I have to remind myself that it should not be about monsters or creatures, epic action or adventure, but something that when you take away all the "spice", as it were, is still very interesting and compelling. I want my fantasy to be a story of the mind - something thought provoking and psychological.Jinn_Ku said:I have trouble with the concept of God in fantasy. Without the historical setting of the Holy Land, you can place a Jesus character in your story but its the same as using a pagan god. It's just not the real thing.
I likewise hate the cliche. There are so many unexplored mythical creatures out there, why the focus on Elves and Dwarves and the previously established? How about taking Elves down the other path? Instead of tall noble creatures, make them the short flying sprites with mischievous intent? Do away with Dwarves and go with Gnomes or some other ground dweller. What about combining a rabbit and a hippo to come up with a leaping animal to replace the horse? There is so much material to draw from.
I think the problem is so many writers are thinking they can just sit down and pump out the next best seller because their dragon has a different name than the one in the book they just finished reading, and their hero carries a blue sword instead of a silver one. They take the established, twist it a bit to make it look new on the outside, and never learn how to tell a good story.
More writers need to become good writers. The intricacies of plot and character development, pacing, realistic settings, balance of narration and dialog, POV, and so many more aspects of storytelling are simply never developed in the writer. They reuse the same old ideas because they don't have the linguistic skill to shape and craft a story of their own. A good writer is nothing more than a storyteller.
So many don't venture into new territory because they can't. Their story cannot stand on their ability to tell it, and so they are forced to fall back on the same rehashed notions. I think a good example is the book "The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon." I wouldn't usually be interested in a book about a girl lost in the woods. But it was told so well that there was no need for a hero to kill a thousand men with his magical sword of justice.
I don't mean to say all people who write High Fantasy are talentless rubes. Far from it. I'm just saying paying more attention to detail and really doing the work required to create a fantasy world are so overlooked that all that can be expected is the same cliche material. Learn to weave a story first, and then you'll have the ability to make a hippo-bunny work within the setting of your story. Okay, my rant is done.
Mad Cow Bomber said:Read Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. There are no messianic farmboys with magical swords, no elves, no dwarves. Instead there's humans and Tiste Andii and T'Lan Imass and Tiste Edur and Barghast and Trell and Jaghut and Ascendants and Soletaken and Diver's and Bridgeburners and Malazan sappers. Malazan sappers rule all, man.
The series goes Gardens of the Moon, Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, House of Chains, Midnight Tides, and the just-released The Bonehunters. Without a doubt, DG and MoI tie for the best fantasy I've read, ever. Period. Forget Tolkien. Don't even think about Eddings or Salvatore. Erikson makes even George RR Martin look, at best, a talented kid.
Malazan is primarily epic/military fantasy, a little like Glen Cook's Black Company books. Except more so. Erikson's background in archaeology and anthropology enriches his depicted cultures in so many ways. There are more than three hundred thousand years of history recorded and referred to in the series. Some of the characters have even lived that long. Fair warning, however, that Gardens of the Moon drops you right into the middle of the action with no warning, and you learn everything as you go. No Gandalf/Moiraine/Allanon to help you out. So if you're tired of cliche, tired of the same old ideas and tropes and magic geegaws, check out Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon, and go from there. You won't regret it.
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