I know I've mentioned before... but for background purposes... we are charismatic calvinists. We like going to a spirit-filled church, so we've basically had to opt for churches that lean towards the armenian (sp?) side of things. Not a big issue here, but just background on us.
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We moved to the town we now live in 11 months ago. We tried many churches and even stayed at a Messianic church for 3 months. We learned a lot there and took away a lot that I think has enriched our walk... but, we didn't feel that's where God wanted us to stay (though we are still in contact with the MJ Rabbi and friends and all). So, we found the church we are at currently. It is a new Assemblies of God church... planted April 2003. It's very small right now and meets in a movie theater. The church is led by a Father and Son ministry team and their wives. The older half of the church seems to really like the church as it is, from what we can tell. But, there are a good number of us, mostly in the 25-35 year age range that are having some real issues. Yet, we've connected with each other and aren't feeling led to leave really... but we are all feeling something needs to be done or said. Just most all of us are unsure of what exactly to do or say and no one wants to take the innitiative and take the step.
Here are our problems... (in no specific order of importance)
1- worship. the church is lacking in this area. the younger pastor is supposed to be leading worship, but is new to it and worship is not really his area of expertise. His Mom is really the one leading and her views on how worship should be are very narrow. "worship should be slow songs, anything upbeat is irreverant" all songs are just chorus's... even the few good songs we've had are cut down to just the chorus and the whole message of the song is lost. The songs are the same ones week after week after week and are drving us crazy. That and the style in which the older pastors wife plays the keyboard, which can best be discribed as lounge style. The younger pastor likes more pssionate worship, but will not step up and be the leader he's supposed to be. This is a charismatic church and no one is raising their hands, clapping, shouting joyfully or heaven forbid... dancing!
2- Sundays feel like church meetings, not church. We hear more about the church we're supposed to be or want to become than just doing it. We are told of wonderful things the church is going to do and be... but it's all talk and no action.
3- Similar to above. The pastors keep taking about ways we can impact our community for the Lord. One was mentioned was reaching out to new parents with a small gift... then I mentioned not only reaching our to new parents, but parents who have been to Labor and delivery and lost a child to miscarriage or stillbirth, etc. and give them a memory box to put cards and mementos in. This and other things were mentioned as to how we could minister to the community. We haven't done any of these things.
4- the emphasis placed on 'growing the church', on 'numbers', or what I like ot refer to as 'quantity over quality'. Our heart is to bless the community we are in... if they come to our church great... but, if they go to any bible believeing church have we not done what we should? It's not that we don't want to see a church grow... it's just all the emphasis on bringing in the numbers and spending Sunday mornings talking about it instead being in the word and sending us off to our week refreshed and ready to serve the Lord in whatever way He may lead.
5- the older pastor and his wife give off a very shallow pressence. We and others feel that they are not genuine in their kindness. They seem like they are trying to be nice... more out of concern on keeping people coming to church than out of loving people because GOd has called them to do so. The pastors wife in paritcular never gives off any joy... she always has this sour, annoyed look on her face. They host the Wednesday night bible study in their home and she spends more time fussing about keeping her house perfect than offering a warm atmosphere to gather in. She has even had her daughter-in-law, the other pastors wife hand out flyers to parents about not letting the kids roam the house or stray from designated areas (the garage and the kitchen) as if any of us has (her 2 grandkids are the ones that run around wild and encourage the other kids to go along into the payroom they set up for the grandkids)... I guess she's concerned the kids will get crumbs on her light beige couches and carpet. We've offered the use of our home, it's kid friendly and we don't care if they run around... but, we've never been taken up on the offer.
6- the younger pastor isn't too bad, but his main experiance is as a youth pastor... and when he leads the bible study he does it as he would with teens. Not a big deal... but we are more than capable of participating in deep discussion of what the Bible says... not just to have it spoon fed to us as we sit like zombies not being given the chance to respond.
What would you do? Should something be done or said? What should be done or said? Any comments or advice? There are officially 6 of us that share all these concerns and there are a few others that we know share at least some of them.
(note: I'm going to ask this in more than one forum... just to see what range of advice there is to be offered)
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We moved to the town we now live in 11 months ago. We tried many churches and even stayed at a Messianic church for 3 months. We learned a lot there and took away a lot that I think has enriched our walk... but, we didn't feel that's where God wanted us to stay (though we are still in contact with the MJ Rabbi and friends and all). So, we found the church we are at currently. It is a new Assemblies of God church... planted April 2003. It's very small right now and meets in a movie theater. The church is led by a Father and Son ministry team and their wives. The older half of the church seems to really like the church as it is, from what we can tell. But, there are a good number of us, mostly in the 25-35 year age range that are having some real issues. Yet, we've connected with each other and aren't feeling led to leave really... but we are all feeling something needs to be done or said. Just most all of us are unsure of what exactly to do or say and no one wants to take the innitiative and take the step.
Here are our problems... (in no specific order of importance)
1- worship. the church is lacking in this area. the younger pastor is supposed to be leading worship, but is new to it and worship is not really his area of expertise. His Mom is really the one leading and her views on how worship should be are very narrow. "worship should be slow songs, anything upbeat is irreverant" all songs are just chorus's... even the few good songs we've had are cut down to just the chorus and the whole message of the song is lost. The songs are the same ones week after week after week and are drving us crazy. That and the style in which the older pastors wife plays the keyboard, which can best be discribed as lounge style. The younger pastor likes more pssionate worship, but will not step up and be the leader he's supposed to be. This is a charismatic church and no one is raising their hands, clapping, shouting joyfully or heaven forbid... dancing!
2- Sundays feel like church meetings, not church. We hear more about the church we're supposed to be or want to become than just doing it. We are told of wonderful things the church is going to do and be... but it's all talk and no action.
3- Similar to above. The pastors keep taking about ways we can impact our community for the Lord. One was mentioned was reaching out to new parents with a small gift... then I mentioned not only reaching our to new parents, but parents who have been to Labor and delivery and lost a child to miscarriage or stillbirth, etc. and give them a memory box to put cards and mementos in. This and other things were mentioned as to how we could minister to the community. We haven't done any of these things.
4- the emphasis placed on 'growing the church', on 'numbers', or what I like ot refer to as 'quantity over quality'. Our heart is to bless the community we are in... if they come to our church great... but, if they go to any bible believeing church have we not done what we should? It's not that we don't want to see a church grow... it's just all the emphasis on bringing in the numbers and spending Sunday mornings talking about it instead being in the word and sending us off to our week refreshed and ready to serve the Lord in whatever way He may lead.
5- the older pastor and his wife give off a very shallow pressence. We and others feel that they are not genuine in their kindness. They seem like they are trying to be nice... more out of concern on keeping people coming to church than out of loving people because GOd has called them to do so. The pastors wife in paritcular never gives off any joy... she always has this sour, annoyed look on her face. They host the Wednesday night bible study in their home and she spends more time fussing about keeping her house perfect than offering a warm atmosphere to gather in. She has even had her daughter-in-law, the other pastors wife hand out flyers to parents about not letting the kids roam the house or stray from designated areas (the garage and the kitchen) as if any of us has (her 2 grandkids are the ones that run around wild and encourage the other kids to go along into the payroom they set up for the grandkids)... I guess she's concerned the kids will get crumbs on her light beige couches and carpet. We've offered the use of our home, it's kid friendly and we don't care if they run around... but, we've never been taken up on the offer.
6- the younger pastor isn't too bad, but his main experiance is as a youth pastor... and when he leads the bible study he does it as he would with teens. Not a big deal... but we are more than capable of participating in deep discussion of what the Bible says... not just to have it spoon fed to us as we sit like zombies not being given the chance to respond.
What would you do? Should something be done or said? What should be done or said? Any comments or advice? There are officially 6 of us that share all these concerns and there are a few others that we know share at least some of them.
(note: I'm going to ask this in more than one forum... just to see what range of advice there is to be offered)
pray pray pray. To some degree I can relate, But at the same time I think that it falls on us to pray without ceasing, easier said than done. I think when we see the shortcomings of our body we really need to seek the Lord in fasting & prayer again easier said than done. I myself am a procrastinator but I think it could be possible for the Lord to allow us to see these things in order that maybe we might hurt enough as I am sure He hurts and that we will be moved to serious non stop until God mives prayer again easier said than done Blessing to you
