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Where do you think they got the design for the learned ones, synagogues and later the churches? Pagans.
If the gentile is grafted in, it becomes part of what it is grafted into and as such does not and can't have an entirely different set of rules.... you are either a son or daughter or you aren't. Now, not all children got the same inheritance (Jews inherit the land (Y'israel) but the rules (statues, decree's ordinance etc) of the father apply to ALL his children.
It wasn't Yeshua's position....All those words were spoken and addressed to the nation of Israel, not to all the nations.
Actually it is according to most Torah scholars....here's just one example....
Why do you think the Rabbis disagree with this position? How did they come to their position?
BTW- Using Greek logic to come to a Hebraic conclusion? I thought you were against all that.
…I think if you read this you can see that it is God intention... not that those who walk in darkness or lack in understanding can comprehend. Yeshua explained it further...
And He is our example, just as He followed His Father, so should we. Just earlier Yeshua gave the Jewish leaders a glimpse of His sheep.Matt 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
That wasn't an exclusive statement. But this is true.John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
This is one law....and it will always have distinctions between male and female, ranking positions, and authorities.Micah 4:2 Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Why would I consult or accept much of what the Rabbi's have to say about Messiah... they dont believe he has come and MANY of them dont believe what is in the Torah all concerning Messiah. Heck there is a movement in Israel right now that is waiting for a rabbi to rise... they think he was the messiah problem is he was born in Brooklyn, NyAll those words were spoken and addressed to the nation of Israel, not to all the nations.
Actually it is according to most Torah scholars....here's just one example....
Why do you think the Rabbis disagree with this position? How did they come to their position?
BTW- Using Greek logic to come to a Hebraic conclusion? I thought you were against all that.
Yeah, and I POINTED some of them out...I am married to my wife. We are one flesh. I do NOT wear dresses.
There are distinctions between Jew and Gentlie that HaShem has established and will continue.
Why would I consult or accept much of what the Rabbi's have to say about Messiah... they dont believe he has come and MANY of them dont believe what is in the Torah all concerning Messiah. Heck there is a movement in Israel right now that is waiting for a rabbi to rise... they think he was the messiah problem is he was born in Brooklyn, Ny
It wasn't Yeshua's position....
This is one law....and it will always have distinctions between male and female, ranking positions, and authorities.
Actually, I think it was...
The issue is not whether there is one or two laws...it's about how different peoples live under those laws. Not every one of the 613 pertains individually to the Jews, and not every one of them pertain to the Gentiles. The term "One Law" which became a position of a MJ sect did a lot of damage to the Torah- making sweeping rash generalizations that made fast-food theology the order of the day. All it succeeded on doing was making a clear belief system muddy.
Why would I consult or accept much of what the Rabbi's have to say about Messiah... they dont believe he has come and MANY of them dont believe what is in the Torah all concerning Messiah. Heck there is a movement in Israel right now that is waiting for a rabbi to rise... they think he was the messiah problem is he was born in Brooklyn, Ny
I don't understand this comment brother. A whopping portion of the Torah has precedent in paganism from start to finish. Are we then to conclude that Judaism is based on paganism? Many scholars say yes to that- and archaeology tends to lend more gravity to it every decade.
The expression one law does even begin to me what you are trying to imply. It is meant to combat the fallacious argument that the Torah is done away with. It means that gentiles who are believers and followers dont have a different set of rules, statues and decree's based upon being a gentile.
Paganism was not the earlier religion, despite what archeologists say.
Anyway, Judaism is not the original religion of Israel or those before Israel. Judaism is the religion of no temple and no sacrifices, and is not biblical.
lol what planet do you live on?The fallacious argument that the "Torah has been done away with" is really not that popular anyway- probably because most people think it is fallacious. Dig deep into most theologies these days and you just don't see it anymore. Even the Reformers rarely taught such a thing. It's a matter really of how the Torah is applied and which laws pertain to whom. You have to look deeper to avoid getting sucked in to the arguments of the new spirits who claim everyone is lawless except for them!
lol what planet do you live on?
The mainstream "church" 100% believes Torah is done away with and for you to suggest otherwise is sheer folly Get back to me when you hear of any non denominational or denominational body advocating for observing the feast days as articulated in scripture.
Yeah, I must have 'missed' the whole thing where Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutheran's, Episcopalians and Catholic's (to name a few) have, as a movement, said "oops we were wrong we really SHOULD be observing Passover, the feast of unleavened bread, Sukkot and the other feasts of Gd, in the manner HE has decreed it." I can assure you, THAT has not happened
...but most of Israel's history had no temple or sacrifices. There's entire eras without them in the Tanach!
I actually don't think you're even listening or willing to comprehend another point of view- and only you know why that is. You bring up feasts that in Jewish theology as well as Christian only pertain to Israel and somehow conclude that they were "thrown out"- which is just poor reasoning. That's like saying that because a male doesn't follow the laws pertaining specifically to women he must have "thrown out" the laws pertaining to women- which would obviously not be the case. The real problem with your POV is that your POV makes the Jews and the Christians wrong on a point they both agree upon. This means that millions of people for three thousand years are clueless on the Torah but the modern MJ sitting in his home with Google (usually separated from the community of God as well) and has worked it all out where thousands of Hebrew speaking scholars have got it wrong since Moses. It also implies that God has abandoned His people to the whims of individual opinion and hasn't led them since their initial calling. That would be pretty arrogant, right? Then why engage in it?
As for my knowledge of church stuff- I am a qualified, credentialed degree holding pastor and teacher and you're not listening to what's being written. I know my Church stuff. Every old Church Catechism has the decalogue- and every commentary I can think of off of the top of my head (and that's quite a few) on those catechisms state that all the laws connect to the others- so all 613 laws are in some way connected to the 10. Yeshua concurs. Teaching the 10 instructs us to look to the other 603. Now, if people get that wrong, that's their problem- they should be properly taught. I could bury you in proofs on this but I doubt you'd really consider it- which is why I wouldn't waste my time. I'm saying to you that you should re-check the primary sources, dig deep and stop the prejudice and hate against the Body of Yeshua. Have your opinions, but don't try to tell the rest of us what our opinions "should be" according to your own individual findings. We know what we believe, and we have a right to say that you are mis-representing us.
God wants all people to be like Him.
not that those who walk in darkness or lack in understanding can comprehend.
And He is our example, just as He followed His Father, so should we. Just earlier Yeshua gave the Jewish leaders a glimpse of His sheep.
This is one law....and it will always have distinctions between male and female, ranking positions, and authorities.
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