What do Christians think of Pagans?

[AsuraDewinters]

Please tell me what you think on the Pagan subject? I am a Pagan, my whole family was Pagan all the way back through the generations. I have heard a lot about Christians and their "God and Jesus" But the concept of such a critical and judgemental God is sad to me. People in your religion actually go to hell for having a different point of view? So you are all saying if your not a christian you are damned and no matter how good you live your life if you do not accept god your doomed? That is a sad thought to me, Your "God and Satan" hold no sway over me nor do they exist in my eyes. I just want to understand why your god uses fear to control the many? And I am also wondering if any of you Christians have any questions about Paganism?

 

[ebia]

Please tell me what you think on the Pagan subject? I am a Pagan, my whole family was Pagan all the way back through the generations. I have heard a lot about Christians and their "God and Jesus" But the concept of such a critical and judgemental God is sad to me. People in your religion actually go to hell for having a different point of view? So you are all saying if your not a christian you are damned and no matter how good you live your life if you do not accept god your doomed? That is a sad thought to me, Your "God and Satan" hold no sway over me nor do they exist in my eyes. I just want to understand why your god uses fear to control the many?

That's not what Christianity says. What Christianity says is that God is distinct from his creation. When he finished creation it was "very good", but humanity has failed to live up to its role in that creation and consequently creation and humanity have gone badly off the rails. God, recognising the inherent goodness of creation could be rescued, called one family to be the means by which he would rescue creation, and one person from that family, Jesus of Nazareth, specifically to be himself in the world, take all the consequence of that failure and corruption on himself on the cross, and get the whole project back on track, with Jesus in the rightful place as Lord.

God wants us collectively and individually to take up our part in that by recognising his Lordship and allowing him to transform us to be fit to carry out the job he has for us in his new creation.

But, he respects our humanity enough to not force that transformation. If you refuse to recognise him as Lord, be transformed and take up your place then you cannot be part of that because your presence would destroy its perfection.

While you worship part (or all) of creation as though it were the creator you cannot be fully human and cannot be part of God's new creation.

So God isn't using fear and New Creation isn't about excluding people who fail to meet some arbitrary set of rules. Its about the fact that you can't have a healed world if you allow in some people who refuse healing.
You can't have a just world if you allow in some people who refuse justice. You can't have a world flooded with the glory of God if some people refuse to recognise that glory. So those that refuse exclude themselves.

And I am also wondering if any of you Christians have any questions about Paganism?

This is not the appropriate forum. There are parts of CF for discussion of paganism from your point of view, but this isn't it. It may seem strict, but this forum works best by remaining strictly questions by non-Christians about Christianity answered by Christians.

 

[AsuraDewinters]

So God isn't using fear and New Creation isn't about excluding people who fail to meet some arbitrary set of rules. Its about the fact that you can't have a healed world if you allow in some people who refuse healing.

But you all believe that everyone needs healing? Not everyone needs healing, nor do they want it from as they see it a false god. Its a matter of perspective. Do you not think it is intimidating to some to be told that they are going to hell if they do not accept god? Is that not a very basic fear of rejection and failure to meet the standards? Do you not believe that only by accepting god into your life and living by his rules you can save yourself from burning in hell? That would be a scary thought to someone that believes in God. How can telling someone you need to believe in me, you have a choice not to, but if you choose not to believe in me then your going to die and go to hell. That is not a loving idea, that is fear and manipulation at its finest. Did your church also not sell indulgence into heaven? Such a corrupt institution can surely not be considered godly? And I understand about the pagan topic, I will discuss it in a different forum.

 

[ebia]

So God isn't using fear and New Creation isn't about excluding people who fail to meet some arbitrary set of rules. Its about the fact that you can't have a healed world if you allow in some people who refuse healing.

But you all believe that everyone needs healing?

Yep. That's what the early chapters of Genesis are about, and it certainly rings true. Even the most admirable people I know of are deeply flawed as well.

Not everyone needs healing,

Um, yes they do. We all fail to be the image of God we are meant to be. It's not just about avoiding doing things wrong (though none of us even manage that) but about being the source of goodness, mercy and healing in ways we can't even dream about yet.

nor do they want it from as they see it a false god.

If they are to be part of the New Creation they need it. Reject it and (unfortunately) they cannot be part of the New Creation for they would spoil it and it would destroy them.

Its a matter of perspective.

You seem to like that phrase, but the way you use it is pretty meaningless.

Do you not think it is intimidating to some to be told that they are going to hell if they do not accept god?

Yep. I have never told anybody that.

Is that not a very basic fear of rejection and failure to meet the standards?

You miss my point - "You are going to hell if you don't accept God" is an inaccurate and unhelpful way of expressing the situation in the first place, so the reaction of fear to that phrase isn't a reaction to the gospel but to something else.

Do you not believe that only by accepting god into your life and living by his rules you can save yourself from burning in hell?

1. The notion of hell you appear to be describing owes more to medieval fantasy than the biblical text.
2. The purpose of following Jesus isn't (or shouldn't be) primarily about avoiding hell or "getting to heaven".
3. Christianity is not about living by rules. God's or anyone elses.
3. If I am dying, and my doctor offers treatment then you could describe the reason for talking the treatment as "fear", but thats really a distorted way of describing the picture.

That would be a scary thought to someone that believes in God. How can telling someone you need to believe in me, you have a choice not to, but if you choose not to believe in me then your going to die and go to hell.

That's not how God expresses it. That's not how Christians ought to express it.

That is not a loving idea, that is fear and manipulation at its finest. Did your church also not sell indulgence into heaven? Such a corrupt institution can surely not be considered godly?

People make a mess of things - that's the whole point. God can and does work through all that mess to put the thing right.

 

[tapero]

Please tell me what you think on the Pagan subject? I am a Pagan, my whole family was Pagan all the way back through the generations. I have heard a lot about Christians and their "God and Jesus" But the concept of such a critical and judgemental God is sad to me. People in your religion actually go to hell for having a different point of view? So you are all saying if your not a christian you are damned and no matter how good you live your life if you do not accept god your doomed? That is a sad thought to me, Your "God and Satan" hold no sway over me nor do they exist in my eyes. I just want to understand why your god uses fear to control the many? And I am also wondering if any of you Christians have any questions about Paganism?

Hi, this forum is not for questions for Pagans as in your last question, but if you were interested in that, the place to ask would be in discussion and debate forums.

As all Christians were non believers (regardless of the term used to describe themselves) prior to becoming a Christian it's no far step to recall who we were, and how we thought on matters or didn't think on matters.

A person who does not believe in Jesus is an unbeliever and well loved by God as well as loved by Christians who believe as Jesus teaches to love all.

That some will preach things which are fearful is due to the fact that the bible speaks of hell.

You said your God and Satan hold no sway over you.

satan is a demon, not an opposite to God. satan is an angel who sinned, and hence a demon, as well as when he sinned 1/3 of all angels also sinned along with satan.

So is not my satan..

All were created by God including angels and humans, and both sinned, satan and the 1/3 of angels all now called demons, and then humans sinned as well, all which is in the first few chapters of Genesis.

God was not created, always was, always existed (God being Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit); one God, in 3 persons is how the trinity is explained often times.

As to Christianity being judgemental. There are all manner of people in the world and how anyone speaks, Christian or non Christian is as varied as there are numbers of person.

The bible is what Christians (majority) read from and get truth about God and many other things. In it, there are things spoken of. Christians vary in their understanding on many matters contained.

But without a doubt many Christians take the bible as truth as pertains to things such as hell as well as many other things in the bible.

Jesus tells us not to judge people. As we can't judge, as we can not know any person's heart, we barely know our own.

We are told (in the bible) to tell others about Jesus.

When someone asks me a question or posts a question as pertains to God, Christianity and the bible, I reply according to my understanding and belief.

I just wrote this kind of quickly, so sorry doesn't go much in depth.

blessings,
take care,
tapero

 

[WarEagle]

People in your religion actually go to hell for having a different point of view?

This is a common misconception among those who don't know God's word and it stems from a misunderstanding of three things: the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of sin. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to fathom. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He, in fact, that He cannot tolerate sin. He is a God whose anger burns against the wicked and those who disobey Him (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3). He is not only a loving God; He is love itself! But the Bible also tells us that He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19). And while He is merciful, but there are limits to His mercy. “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7).

Man, in his unregenerate state, is corrupted by sin and that sin is always directly against God. When David sinned by committing adultery with Bathsheba and having Uriah murdered, he responded by praying something interesting: “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). Since David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah, how could he claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being (Psalm 90:2). As a result, all sin requires an eternal punishment. God’s holy, perfect and infinite character has been offended by our sin, and although to our finite minds our sin is limited in time, to God—who is outside of time—the sin He hates goes on and on. Our sin is continually before Him and must be continually punished in order to satisfy His holy justice.

No one understands this better than someone in hell. A perfect example is the story of the rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. Both died and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to heaven (called Abraham’s bosom in Luke 16). Of course the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But interestingly, he never says: "How did I end up here?" That question is never asked in hell. He doesn't say, "Did I really deserve this?" "Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?" He doesn't say any of that. He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them not to come there.

Like the rich man, every sinner has a full realization of his wretchedness in hell, a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a soul fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, hammering without relief for one moment. The guilt of that sinner produces shame and everlasting self-hatred and loathing. The rich man knew that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. That’s why he never protested or questioned being in hell.

The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, eternal punishment are frightening and rightly so. But this is for the good of the sinner, that he might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim (and it is!), there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin, ask God’s forgiveness, and place our faith in Christ, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided a means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.

So you are all saying if your not a christian you are damned and no matter how good you live your life if you do not accept god your doomed?

Have you lived a good life?

I just want to understand why your god uses fear to control the many?

He doesn't. In fact, in the Bible, God tells us over and over again "fear not".

Did your church also not sell indulgence into heaven? Such a corrupt institution can surely not be considered godly?

I agree. That's why we had the Protestant Reformation.

Roman Catholicism still sells indulgences. Protestantism and Baptists do not.

 

[Merlin]

Please tell me what you think on the Pagan subject? I am a Pagan, my whole family was Pagan all the way back through the generations. I have heard a lot about Christians and their "God and Jesus" But the concept of such a critical and judgemental God is sad to me. People in your religion actually go to hell for having a different point of view? So you are all saying if your not a christian you are damned and no matter how good you live your life if you do not accept god your doomed? That is a sad thought to me, Your "God and Satan" hold no sway over me nor do they exist in my eyes. I just want to understand why your god uses fear to control the many? And I am also wondering if any of you Christians have any questions about Paganism?

Nope. No questions about paganism.
It's sad you have such wrong ideas about christianity

 

[AsuraDewinters]

Any wrong misconceptions as you say I have were told to me by priests and by the so called follows of christ. You all seem like very respectable christians, but I have never met christians like you all. I have been to a church to better understand why christians single out other religions and deem them as wrong. I have only seen these negative things from Christians. I have only seen christians point fingers and simply say you dont believe in christ and dont accept him, your going to hell. Even the priests. So many of your faith are exactly when you preach against. How can so many be contradictory to your own beliefs? Are they going to hell?

 

[AsuraDewinters]

Quote: Not everyone needs healing, Um, yes they do. We all fail to be the image of God we are meant to be. It's not just about avoiding doing things wrong (though none of us even manage that) but about being the source of goodness, mercy and healing in ways we can't even dream about yet.

You all speak as if your way is the only way. The point is you all have a strong faith and so as a Pagan do I. Im sure a lot of Christians see the pagan faith as a bunch of non sense, and others fear it and feel uncomfortable around pagans because they believe wrongly we worship this Satan character. The fact that you say we were all made in the image of god and we are flawed is just your religious opinion. You cant say it is truth because it is not everyone's truth, just that of the christians. It is your truth not mine. But anyway Thanks for your opinions!!! Some of you christians are very nice, I only wish that there were more of you that follow your faith as it was meant to be followed. And yes I live a very full, happy a loving life with my connection and belief in the god and goddesses that govern our world. Thanks again for helping!

 

[ebia]

Quote: Not everyone needs healing, Um, yes they do. We all fail to be the image of God we are meant to be. It's not just about avoiding doing things wrong (though none of us even manage that) but about being the source of goodness, mercy and healing in ways we can't even dream about yet.

You all speak as if your way is the only way. The point is you all have a strong faith and so as a Pagan do I. Im sure a lot of Christians see the pagan faith as a bunch of non sense, and others fear it and feel uncomfortable around pagans because they believe wrongly we worship this Satan character.

I can say I know much about modern paganism, so I'm not qualified to comment on the detail about what you believe let alone to judge it in detail. However, if the Judeo/Christian tradition is correct it does matter who or what you worship - "whatever is right for you" isn't an option.

The fact that you say we were all made in the image of god and we are flawed is just your religious opinion.

An opinion that either is correct - in which case it matters how we respond to it - or is false. I can't force you to accept it's validity (and I wouldn't want to), all I can do is explain it as best I can.

You cant say it is truth because it is not everyone's truth, just that of the christians.

It's either true for everyone or it's true for no-one. Some people may choose to deny it, others may find themselves literally unable to accept it, but it remains an absolute truth. Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't.

 

[TimRout]

The Bible says there is one God [Isaiah 44:6]. He is the maker of all things [Isaiah 45:12]. He demands that His creatures worship Him alone [Deuteronomy 5:6-10]. If we choose to worship other gods, or choose to worship no one at all, we are violating His expressed will [Psalm 29:1-2]. Those who follow other gods and other religions, including pagan religions, are in fact worshiping demons [1 Corinthians 10:20]. Every person is a condemned sinner who needs to be forgiven [John 3:16-18]. Only through faith in God's unique Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, can a person be saved from sin and its eternal consequences -- hell [John 3:36].

 

[godismyabba]

I think pagens (as other non-Christian religions) are incomplete. I don't say this to start a debate, I am just not articulate enough to put it a different way and this is as close as I can get. I ache for non-believers to experience the love of God in it's fullest.

God says we must all come to Him. We are taught that non believers go to hell, and I believe that. I just think that God is way more compassionate than we will ever understand or comprehend.

I don't know how God will handle everything in the end. Theologically, I am not well versed. I don't know if non-believers will get another chance and then the ones who refuse to believe will go to hell (???). But I don't believe it is as cut and dry as us Christians make it out to be. Different denominations will say different things, but I know I will never fully understand God or His ways, and I am ok with that.

All I know is my life when I was an atheist and my life now. I know the peace that surpasses all understanding. I know the feeling of have a living God with me at all times. I know where I can put my trust. And I know I would not have the miracles in my life if it wasn't for what Jesus Christ did on the cross. For that I am forever grateful.

 

[AsuraDewinters]

but it remains an absolute truth. Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't.


Ok he didn't in my view.

I can say I know much about modern paganism, so I'm not qualified to comment on the detail about what you believe let alone to judge it in detail. However, if the Judeo/Christian tradition is correct it does matter who or what you worship - "whatever is right for you" isn't an option.


Ok im so glad at least one Christian admits the If. Alright we are in agreement!!!! If the christian tradition is correct it matters to them what you worship. Since its not correct, and not the only way, Whatever is right for you is the only option when it comes to religion. Thanks again.

 

[AsuraDewinters]

I think pagens (as other non-Christian religions) are incomplete.

The same love and warm feelings you feel towards your god, other religions feel towards theirs. The same understanding and completeness. Christianity is just one of the many religions that is good and wholesome. Being something different doesn't make someone incomplete, it just means they might know something you dont, or may see things differently. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[godismyabba]

I think pagens (as other non-Christian religions) are incomplete.

The same love and warm feelings you feel towards your god, other religions feel towards theirs. The same understanding and completeness. Christianity is just one of the many religions that is good and wholesome. Being something different doesn't make someone incomplete, it just means they might know something you dont, or may see things differently. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I promise I didn't mean that to flame. I honestly don't have words for what I want to express.

I understand that what another religion may worship makes them complete, and even for Christians what makes them feel complete may be different from each other. I think people can be "good" no matter what they worship. My son's doctor is Hindu, and she is a most wonderful woman. The main diffence is the eternal afterlife. Like I said, I really don't know how God will handle this, I was just giving my opinion on how I view non-Christians. If I can think of a better way to put it, I will re-post.

 

[ebia]

but it remains an absolute truth. Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't.


Ok he didn't in my view.

I kind of guessed that.

I can say I know much about modern paganism, so I'm not qualified to comment on the detail about what you believe let alone to judge it in detail. However, if the Judeo/Christian tradition is correct it does matter who or what you worship - "whatever is right for you" isn't an option.


Ok im so glad at least one Christian admits the If. Alright we are in agreement!!!! If the christian tradition is correct it matters to them what you worship. Since its not correct, and not the only way, Whatever is right for you is the only option when it comes to religion. Thanks again.

Christianity can't be "right for me, but not for you". Either it is right for everybody, or it is wrong for everybody. Trying to persuade Christians (or members of certain other faiths) to accept the post-modern view isn't going to work - the two world views are mutually incompatible. Christianity makes absolute claims - learn to live with it. (Mind you, even post-modernism has to make one absolute claim, despite its rhetoric.)

 

[aiki]

I think pagens (as other non-Christian religions) are incomplete.

The same love and warm feelings you feel towards your god, other religions feel towards theirs. The same understanding and completeness. Christianity is just one of the many religions that is good and wholesome. Being something different doesn't make someone incomplete, it just means they might know something you dont, or may see things differently. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not every opinion is correct. If my opinion is that it will rain in my city today and someone else's opinion is that it won't, only one of us can be correct. Likewise, if I say you're going to Hell and you say you aren't, then one of us must be wrong. If I'm wrong, then you've no worries, but if I'm right, well, you are in one very big heap of trouble!

How do I know whether or not I am right about Hell? Well, the Bible says so. How do I know if the Bible is true? The answer to this question rests in the pages of the many scholarly texts that have been written over the years in defense of the veracity of the Bible and the Christian faith. No pagan faith can boast the same huge body of archaeological, philosophical, historical, literary, and even scientific evidence that exists in support of the claims of the Christian faith. No mature Christian rests their beliefs upon mere opinion or feeling, but upon the evidence God has left that what He has said in His Word is true.

I would highly recommend the works of the following authors:

Norman Geisler
Gary Habermas
Ravi Zacharias
C.S. Lewis
J.P. Moreland
Josh MacDowell
and many more...

Peace to you.

 

[KarateCowboy]

You know, Asura. If you're looking for an entertaining and informative dissertation on the basic reasoning of Christianity you would do yourself well to read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

 

[Stinker]

If someone had very little or no Bible understanding, and was curious about the concept of God, I definitely would whet their curiousity by recommending that they investigate the physical evidence we have of Jesus:

http://www.shroudforum.com/

 

[PastorJim]

If someone had very little or no Bible understanding, and was curious about the concept of God, I definitely would whet their curiousity by recommending that they investigate the physical evidence we have of Jesus:

http://www.shroudforum.com/

The Shroud of Turin has already been proven to be a fake that was produced hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Christ

While it may be an historical curiousity, the Bible says that faith comes through the hearing of God's word, not through historical curiousities.