What do Christians mean by "died for our sins"?

[TrevorKamal]

I've never been able to fully understand what Christians mean when they say that Jesus died for our sins. There are explanations that make sense and there are explanations that don't. Do most Christians believe:

A) Jesus devoted His life to teaching mankind the correct way to live and to love and serve God so that he may get closer to God which by man's very nature is beneficial to him. This eventually got Jesus killed but it didn't matter because His mission was more important to Him.

or

B) There was a debt to be paid and Jesus paid it. He picked up the check for sin which mankind had been putting on its tab and God was the restaurant owner.

 

[Futuwwa]

Adding that in B), God wasn't only the restaurant owner, but also the guy who paid the bill.

 

[MercuryAndy]

I cant help getting the idea that it was in the godfather for some reason.

b i think.

 

[peepnklown]

A

Historically this doesn’t work since the Romans wouldn’t care if that was the theology Jesus was preaching.

B

If Jesus was God then he was paying a debt he created himself which wouldn’t be ‘our’ debt.

 

[TrevorKamal]

Historically this doesn’t work since the Romans wouldn’t care if that was the theology Jesus was preaching.

What would the Romans' views on His preaching have to do with it?

 

[Karma2Grace]

I've never been able to fully understand what Christians mean when they say that Jesus died for our sins. There are explanations that make sense and there are explanations that don't. Do most Christians believe:

A) Jesus devoted His life to teaching mankind the correct way to live and to love and serve God so that he may get closer to God which by man's very nature is beneficial to him. This eventually got Jesus killed but it didn't matter because His mission was more important to Him.

or

B) There was a debt to be paid and Jesus paid it. He picked up the check for sin which mankind had been putting on its tab and God was the restaurant owner.

It is B


Jesus teaches that the only standard acceptable to God is absolute perfection. Everyone who has sinned falls short of this perfection. No amount of good works can make amends.
Therefore it is impossible for any man to save himself, for every man who needs saving has already fallen short. The only solution is for God to find a way to forgive. I say “find a way,” because God cannot simply wave a hand and forgive. He must also meet the demands of His own justice. The grace of God is not dismissing sin as light and simply waving it off. The grace of God is that God takes onto Himself (His Son, Jesus) the punishment of the sins of men that are due by the demands of justice. This is what Jesus did at the cross. Anyone who simply believes in the forgiving sacrifice of Jesus is then forgiven. The cross of Jesus is the demonstration of the grace of God.

 

[TrevorKamal]

It is B


Jesus teaches that the only standard acceptable to God is absolute perfection. Everyone who has sinned falls short of this perfection. No amount of good works can make amends.
Therefore it is impossible for any man to save himself, for every man who needs saving has already fallen short. The only solution is for God to find a way to forgive. I say “find a way,” because God cannot simply wave a hand and forgive. He must also meet the demands of His own justice. The grace of God is not dismissing sin as light and simply waving it off. The grace of God is that God takes onto Himself (His Son, Jesus) the punishment of the sins of men that are due by the demands of justice. This is what Jesus did at the cross. Anyone who simply believes in the forgiving sacrifice of Jesus is then forgiven. The cross of Jesus is the demonstration of the grace of God.

Can you point me to the passages in the Bible that lead to this conclusion? This is exactly why I started this thread because that explanation is somewhat nonsensical without a further explanation of some metaphorical meaning. Essentially everything you said to justify "B" could also be another way of saying "A" metaphorically and "A" makes a lot more sense than "B". When i say that "B" doesn't make sense i'm not saying that i don't believe it, i'm saying that it literally doesn't make sense given the definitions of the words being used. For example using the term "justice" in an explanation of why someone other than the sinner is taking the punishment simply doesn't make sense.

 

[Karma2Grace]

I've never been able to fully understand what Christians mean when they say that Jesus died for our sins. There are explanations that make sense and there are explanations that don't. Do most Christians believe:

A) Jesus devoted His life to teaching mankind the correct way to live and to love and serve God so that he may get closer to God which by man's very nature is beneficial to him. This eventually got Jesus killed but it didn't matter because His mission was more important to Him.

or

B) There was a debt to be paid and Jesus paid it. He picked up the check for sin which mankind had been putting on its tab and God was the restaurant owner.

For A: Jesus need not to die , He would have simply say "sorry" to Jews/romans and live
A is simply following a footpath or following rules
Christ died in vain if we can be saved by the Law of Moses - Galatians 2:21
Therefore the very Law people desire to save them holds them under the condemnation of death - Romans 3:19-20
When a man desires to bind a portion of the Law, he declares the work of Christ to be useless - Galatians 5:2-4

The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23). That means that your sins have caused a separation between you and God (Isaiah 59:2) and the result is death (Rom. 6:23) and wrath (Eph. 2:3). The only way to be saved from the wrath of God, is to be saved from it by faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:1).
Jesus died for sinners on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead (1 Cor. 15:1-4). His death was a sacrifice that turns away the wrath of God (1 John 2:2). This is the only way to be saved.
Jesus is the one who died for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). He is the only way to the God the Father (John 14;6). He alone reveals God (Matt. 11:27). He has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). It is only through Him that you can be saved from God's wrath (Eph. 2:3). He can forgive you of your sin (Luke 5:20; Matt. 9:2). He can remove the guilt that is upon your soul. Jesus can set you free from the bondage of sin that blinds your eyes, weakens your soul, and brings you to despair. He can do this because He bore sin in His body on the cross (1 Peter. 2:24) that those who trust in Him would be saved.

 

[TrevorKamal]

For A: Jesus need not to die , He would have simply say "sorry" to Jews/romans and live

Who said He needed to die? His death was somewhat of an inevitability since His teachings were so radical and threatened those that were in power but it certainly wasn't some kind of prerequisite. What would saying, "sorry" do and why would He say it? He wasn't sorry for bringing the light of God to mankind, just the opposite.

A is simply following a footpath or following rules

Actually that's "B". "A" is saying rules AND a path to understanding and Truth and learning to SEE the light of love and to love God.

Christ died in vain if we can be saved by the Law of Moses - Galatians 2:21

Absolutely true. We couldn't have been saved by the law of Moses alone. Christ took things to a new level when we were ready.

Therefore the very Law people desire to save them holds them under the condemnation of death - Romans 3:19-20
When a man desires to bind a portion of the Law, he declares the work of Christ to be useless - Galatians 5:2-4

Not sure what you mean by these.

The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23).

Because God is perfect and we are not.

That means that your sins have caused a separation between you and God (Isaiah 59:2)

Right, because again God is pefection and sin is the absence of perfection and the disobedience of spiritual laws that govern our souls? ("laws" meaning simple truths like the law of gravity)

and the result is death (Rom. 6:23)

Physical or spiritual?

and wrath (Eph. 2:3).

Painful realization of the Truth? Learning the hard way?

The only way to be saved from the wrath of God, is to be saved from it by faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:1).

Putting trust in Jesus that He knows more than you about your own very nature and the spiritual laws that govern your soul so that you can be guided toward the light of Truth and God's will without going through the anguish of learning the hard way?

Jesus died for sinners on the cross

Why not "A"?

His death was a sacrifice that turns away the wrath of God (1 John 2:2). This is the only way to be saved.
Jesus is the one who died for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2).

Why not metaphorical for "A"?

He is the only way to the God the Father (John 14;6). He alone reveals God (Matt. 11:27). He has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). It is only through Him that you can be saved from God's wrath (Eph. 2:3).

God is all-powerful and the absolute Truth and Jesus was the only man anointed with the light of that Truth to shed some of that light on mankind who would be lost in the dark on his own?

He can forgive you of your sin (Luke 5:20; Matt. 9:2). He can remove the guilt that is upon your soul. Jesus can set you free from the bondage of sin that blinds your eyes, weakens your soul, and brings you to despair.

Darkness turned to Light and falsehood to Truth? In other words He lets man see the good in Good so that he can use his free will to attain it?

He can do this because He bore sin in His body on the cross (1 Peter. 2:24) that those who trust in Him would be saved.

Why not metaphorical for "A"?

 

[ALRAJY]

Salam ALL,

I've never been able to fully understand what Christians mean when they say that Jesus died for our sins. There are explanations that make sense and there are explanations that don't.

I agree with you, things sometimes might seem strage, but I Kinda Figured It Out, and that is, you can't believe in Jesus Christ, unless you have the Holy Spirit, and you can't get the Holy Spirit unless you believe in Jesus Christ, do you get It ? In Other words, you wouldn't be able to Obtain the Holy Spirit, unless you believe in Jesus Christ, but the thing is, you can't take Jesus Christ as a Lord, and most things would seem UnLogical, unless you have the Holy Spirit.

Hopefully, things are Clear


Kind Regards

 

[rvx]

...you can't believe in Jesus Christ, unless you have the Holy Spirit, but you can't get the Holy Spirit unless you believe in Jesus Christ...

good post...

 

[peepnklown]

What would the Romans' views on His preaching have to do with it?

Whom do you think killed Jesus? Romans
How did his preaching eventually get him killed? The teachings you typed up for Jesus would not have gotten him killed by the Romans.

He alone reveals God

Jesus speaks as a prophet, not a God…you might want to do some research (Hebrew Bible).

 

[TrevorKamal]

Whom do you think killed Jesus? Romans
How did his preaching eventually get him killed? The teachings you typed up for Jesus would not have gotten him killed by the Romans.

Sure it would have. It did. Obviously I didn't type up everything but that's the jist of it. Things like that were very unpopular to certain people, especially the claim that you were sent by God.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Whom do you think killed Jesus? Romans
How did his preaching eventually get him killed? The teachings you typed up for Jesus would not have gotten him killed by the Romans.

I agree Jesus' teachings would not give the Romans the valid reasons to kill him. However, Jesus teachings really hurt the ego and the systems of the Pharisees. It was some of the Jews that planted the seed of sedition in Jesus by they claiming that Jesus was the "King of the Jews" and falsely accusing Jesus of saying he was God. It was the wrong title of "King of the Jews" that could provide the excuse and reasons to plan his execution, and because Jesus was innocent, God saved him from being crucified and cursed, by the Pharisees standards.

Jesus speaks as a prophet, not a God…you might want to do some research (Hebrew Bible).

I cannot agree with you more on this. Jesus was a Prophet of God.

 

[Karma2Grace]

Who said He needed to die? His death was somewhat of an inevitability since His teachings were so radical and threatened those that were in power but it certainly wasn't some kind of prerequisite. What would saying, "sorry" do and why would He say it? He wasn't sorry for bringing the light of God to mankind, just the opposite.


Actually that's "B". "A" is saying rules AND a path to understanding and Truth and learning to SEE the light of love and to love God.

Absolutely true. We couldn't have been saved by the law of Moses alone. Christ took things to a new level when we were ready.


Not sure what you mean by these.

Because God is perfect and we are not.


Right, because again God is pefection and sin is the absence of perfection and the disobedience of spiritual laws that govern our souls? ("laws" meaning simple truths like the law of gravity)


Physical or spiritual?

Painful realization of the Truth? Learning the hard way?


Putting trust in Jesus that He knows more than you about your own very nature and the spiritual laws that govern your soul so that you can be guided toward the light of Truth and God's will without going through the anguish of learning the hard way?


Why not "A"?


Why not metaphorical for "A"?


God is all-powerful and the absolute Truth and Jesus was the only man anointed with the light of that Truth to shed some of that light on mankind who would be lost in the dark on his own?

Darkness turned to Light and falsehood to Truth? In other words He lets man see the good in Good so that he can use his free will to attain it?


Why not metaphorical for "A"?

It may take a phone call to explain.

The plan of Jesus dieing for all humans was set by God right from Genesis. It is a requirement of God that a sinless blood need to be offered to cover the sins. You can read this offering in OT many times (“The first born and no blemish lamb&#8221 the tabernacle of OT is metaphorical for Jesus.

The main theme of Christianity is not "do's and don’ts" (like all other religions) it is "DONE" that's what Jesus said in the cross.

You may be offered 1000’s of people (or Guru's) teaching a moral life (or even living a moral (?) life) but you cannot follow because of the inner 'evil' (note: - not 'Brahman as some one claims) in each one of us

 

[*Starlight*]

To me, A makes more sense. But maybe the truth is something even different?