What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

Christians: What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

As a non-believer, there are certain conditions which if in place, would provide sufficient evidence for me to believe a god exists. I am willing to revise my beliefs if the evidence is in place. So I am curious if there are certain conditions which if in place would cause you to revise your belief that a god exists?

bling · Feb 3, 2014

I just do not see how you could proof to me: "God does not exist"?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

bling said:
I just do not see how you could proof to me: "God does not exist"?

I see no evidence to support the existence of a god. But I am open to revising my belief if sufficient evidence is brought forward. Are you saying there is absolutely no evidence which could be brought forward which would cause you to believe that no god exists?

How would you differentiate between a belief and a delusion?

ebia · Feb 3, 2014

Akureyri said:
Christians: What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists? As a non-believer, there are certain conditions which if in place, would provide sufficient evidence for me to believe a god exists. I am willing to revise my beliefs if the evidence is in place. So I am curious if there are certain conditions which if in place would cause you to revise your belief that a god exists?

One could in principle disprove the Christian story by disproving the resurrection of Jesus.

I don't see how the generalised statement "there is a god" is falsifiable.

ebia · Feb 3, 2014

Akureyri said:
I see no evidence to support the existence of a god. But I am open to revising my belief if sufficient evidence is brought forward. Are you saying there is absolutely no evidence which could be brought forward which would cause you to believe that no god exists?

Proving a negative often is especially difficult.

Steeno7 · Feb 3, 2014

What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe God exists?

God would have to have not come as a man in the Person of Jesus Christ, lived the life He lived, died the death He died, and raised me to life together with Himself.

leftrightleftrightleft · Feb 3, 2014

ebia said:
Proving a negative often is especially difficult.

He's not asking you to prove it. He is asking what kind of evidence would cause you to no longer believe.

ebia · Feb 3, 2014

leftrightleftrightleft said:
He's not asking you to prove it. He is asking what kind of evidence would cause you to no longer believe.

But that's my point - evidence of a negative tends not to exist.

Christianity is falsifiable in principle - it makes a claim for which counter evidence could exist.

The highly vague statement "god exists" isn't; there are plenty of notions of god for which there would be no counter evidence.

Ellwood3 · Feb 3, 2014

Akureyri said:
Christians: What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

As a non-believer, there are certain conditions which if in place, would provide sufficient evidence for me to believe a god exists. I am willing to revise my beliefs if the evidence is in place. So I am curious if there are certain conditions which if in place would cause you to revise your belief that a god exists?

When you meet someone, do you know they exist?

What would change your mind, once you've met them?

I think many of those who seek are unclear about whether they want to find. When someone has, you are asking, could you un-find?

Someone who really has found God (or, been found by Him) isn't going to un-find Him.

What I hear in the question is--maybe--what would it take for you to be open (minded) about the possibility you are wrong?

AH--friend: what would it take for you to be open to the chance I am telling the truth?

Do you have a parent, a child, a friend, a pet?

What would cause you to stop believing they ever existed?

Does that appear to be an odd question?

We walk in faith.

That's not the same as intellectualizing in faith, or using the mind instead of faith.

I think a better question is: God, if you are really there, will You help me to someday know it, somewhere deep in my soul, to know it so I know I am not just following a lie? And if you ARE there, will you please help me to find the right road to You?

It's like the difference between thinking about swimming--and jumping into the water.

2PhiloVoid · Feb 3, 2014

Akureyri said:
Christians: What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

As a non-believer, there are certain conditions which if in place, would provide sufficient evidence for me to believe a god exists. I am willing to revise my beliefs if the evidence is in place. So I am curious if there are certain conditions which if in place would cause you to revise your belief that a god exists?

I would have to see strong signs that the world is becoming a loving place and one of unified peace... without the Gospel of Christ or the concept of God.

And when I say 'loving,' I mean just that. The world would have to start being filled with people who intuitively agree that we should just all get along, no matter what. So far, I don't see that the United this and United that is able to accomplish these things; in fact, it looks pretty hopeless.

Maybe humanity has some kind of moral malady or something that would literally require a miracle to ameliorate.

football5680 · Feb 3, 2014

If the evidence showed that the universe was eternal and unchanging then it would leave the possibility open that God didn't exist but all the evidence points in the other direction. The evidence shows that the universe had a starting point and the energy within the universe is in decline. Something outside the universe which is eternal and all powerful brought it into existence. This is God.

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

ebia said:
One could in principle disprove the Christian story by disproving the resurrection of Jesus.

I don't see how the generalised statement "there is a god" is falsifiable.

How did you arrive at your belief that there is a god?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

ebia said:
Proving a negative often is especially difficult.

It is impossible for you to prove that there are no unicorns anywhere in the universe. Is that sufficient evidence for you to believe that unicorns exist?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

Steeno7 said:
God would have to have not come as a man in the Person of Jesus Christ, lived the life He lived, died the death He died, and raised me to life together with Himself.

How did you arrive at the belief that God did come as a man in the person of Jesus Christ?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

ebia said:
But that's my point - evidence of a negative tends not to exist.

Christianity is falsifiable in principle - it makes a claim for which counter evidence could exist.

The highly vague statement "god exists" isn't; there are plenty of notions of god for which there would be no counter evidence.

Is your belief in Christianity and that a god exists based on any evidence? If so, what kind of evidence is it based on?

Akureyri · Feb 3, 2014

Ellwood3 said:
When you meet someone, do you know they exist?

What would change your mind, once you've met them?

If you brought forward sufficient evidence that what I had observed was merely a mirage - or perhaps that I had actually been deluded into believing it was a person when in reality it wasn't.

Have you ever encountered a Christian who had previously been a devout follower of the Hindu, Muslim or Mormon faith? What evidence was brought forward to convince them that they had been deluded?

I think many of those who seek are unclear about whether they want to find. When someone has, you are asking, could you un-find?

Someone who really has found God (or, been found by Him) isn't going to un-find Him.

This isn't about finding something or not finding something. This is about the type of evidence it would take for one to revise their beliefs.

What I hear in the question is--maybe--what would it take for you to be open (minded) about the possibility you are wrong?

AH--friend: what would it take for you to be open to the chance I am telling the truth?

I would be happy to answer that. But first, I am hoping you could share with me what evidence would have to be brought forward to convince you that the god you believe in is not real?

Do you have a parent, a child, a friend, a pet?

What would cause you to stop believing they ever existed?

Does that appear to be an odd question?

If you brought forward sufficient evidence that what I had observed was merely a mirage - or perhaps that I had actually been deluded into believing it was a person when in reality it wasn't.

Not an odd question at all.

We walk in faith.

That's not the same as intellectualizing in faith, or using the mind instead of faith.

What do you mean by faith?

I think a better question is: God, if you are really there, will You help me to someday know it, somewhere deep in my soul, to know it so I know I am not just following a lie? And if you ARE there, will you please help me to find the right road to You?

It's like the difference between thinking about swimming--and jumping into the water.

I am very interested in knowing what sort of evidence would need to be brought forward for you to revise your belief that a god exists. I am open to revising my beliefs if the proper evidence is brought forward. Are you open to revising your beliefs if the proper evidence were brought forward?

ebia · Feb 3, 2014

Akureyri said:
Is your belief in Christianity and that a god exists based on any evidence? If so, what kind of evidence is it based on?

That's a whole separate topic.

Rattus58 · Feb 4, 2014

Akureyri said:
Christians: What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

As a non-believer, there are certain conditions which if in place, would provide sufficient evidence for me to believe a god exists. I am willing to revise my beliefs if the evidence is in place. So I am curious if there are certain conditions which if in place would cause you to revise your belief that a god exists?

He exists and has made himself known to me and millions upon millions of others... so you're posit seems void.

oi_antz · Feb 4, 2014

You chose a good word "conditions". I don't know any evidence that would contest the faith He gives me. The only way I could lose my faith is if He was to stop sustaining it. I appreciate that, and I wonder at why such a gift has been given to me!

orangeness365 · Feb 4, 2014

If Jesus never came then I wouldn't believe in God.

What conditions would have to be in place for you to not believe a god exists?

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