juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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My answer emphasized the verb: accept ....
That is exactly the answer to your question.
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My question is what one needs to do to go to heaven. My question is not whether Jesus is God, or whether he has authority.
That doesn't exactly answer my question. What is faith in his blood? Is it simply confidence that God will forgive based on seeing the blood?
So that's it? Just belief? That's all? You can lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, pillage, and plunder, but as long as you have confidence that the blood provides a free path to heaven, you make it? The blood is a "get out of jail free card"? And the saint who spends her entire life in service of others without believing that story about the blood enters eternal torment?
Clearly his assent is purely intellectual; he hasn't actually got on-board with the idea.
In Hebrew thought to know something implies not just theoretical knowledge but also to act in accordance with that truth.
The basic idea is that you confess that you are a sinner, repent of your sins, accept Jesus as your savior, and ask him to come into your heart.
Now you ask if one sins after being saved, do they still go to heaven? I'm sure you know that you will find differences of opinion on this doctrine amongst Christians. I happen to be one that believes that the bible teaches the doctrine of once saved, always saved (OSAS). That's a whole other discussion that deserves it's own thread.
Oh dear.
I thought we were ending the list and now we end up with 4 totally new requirements.
Sigh. Do I add these to the previous list, or do we start all over with your list? Just to make sure we don't miss anything, let's assume we add them to the previous list:
1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior
8. ask him to come into your heart.
Have we got it right now? So I need to do all 8 of those things? What if I do only 7? Am I then eternal toast?
Oh and I saw another requirement, "Have faith in the blood". Should I be adding that as number 9, or can we skip that one.
As I've said before, it's not about making a minimal list to get to heaven when you die.doubtingmerle said:Ah I was wondering if the list of SH89 was incomplete. Now we find that for you there is a fourth requirement. 1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah, 2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins, 3. confesses this. 4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means]. Ok, so do we have a complete list now? Or must we add Joshua260's requirement to have faith in the blood? I would hate to have an incomplete list. Imagine all those people burning in hell because they thought the list was complete with 4 requirements if there are actually 5. Now all you need to do is define exactly what you mean by "acting in according with that truth". For instance, Is killing people because they differ with your religion in accordance with that truth or isn't it? How do I know which acts are in accordance with that truth and which are not?
Are you hear to explore Christianity or to mock it?
As I've said before, it's not about making a minimal list to get to heaven when you die.
It's about being part of God's Kingdom building, starting now.
And it's not about prerequisites. Salvation and healing are the same word in Hebrew. Salvation doesn't have becoming a better behaved person as a prerequisite - becoming better is salvation.
Explore.
Are you here to explain Christianity?
More precisely, being healed is salvation; it's not something you can do on your own.doubtingmerle said:"Becoming better" is salvation? Oh good. I am working on improving myself. I think I am becoming better. So as long as I keep that up, I should be just fine? Good to hear that.
More precisely, being healed is salvation; it's not something you can do on your own.
Choose to get on board with the project; trusting what God is doing, becoming part of it.doubtingmerle said:But there are prerequisites that must be met before one has salvation, yes? If there are no prerequisites, than all would have salvation. So if some have salvation and some don't, and if salvation makes one better, why would it not be important to ask what one must do to obtain that salvation?
Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven?Choose to get on board with the project; trusting what God is doing, becoming part of it.
Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven?
1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior [whatever that means]
8. ask him to come into your heart.
9. Have faith in his blood.
10. Get on board with the project. [whatever that means]
11. Trust what God is doing.
12. Become a part of what God is doing. [By doing good works?]
Feel free to remove anything from this list that does not belong. And if there are additional requirements for heaven, please add them to the list. I want to get the list right.
Thanks.
I think the whole thing can be summarized by saying "Believe in Christ and make a conscious effort towards being Christlike." That is my understanding, but I am nothing but a lowly "faith seeker" so take that as you would like.
Ah, a simplified system.I was beginning to think this was all too complicated.
So God want us to believe in Christ and make a conscious effort to doing right.
I don't think I will make your qualification for "believing in Christ" After all, I have studied the subject, and determined that the evangelical view of Christ as resurrected savior is probably not true. But the requirement to make an effort sounds reasonable. It is something all can do.
If I make an effort to do what is right, but differ with you on which ancient stories are actual history (such as the resurrection story) will God accept my efforts, or will he demand that I agree with you on which events happened in history?
To simplify it it would be like asking "how can I be friends with my neighbor George?" Well #1 is that you have to believe that George exists, failing that, what are you really asking? Are you asking how you can please the people that do believe that George exists? Are you asking how you can eat the food that people say that George has in his house without acknowledging that he exists? I'm confused.
Let's suppose that there is a rumor that my neighbor George's son, George Jr., was killed in a gunfight, was dead for 3 days, and rose from the dead. Let's say I don't personally believe that rumor is true. Must I then force myself to believe that rumor is true before I can be George's friend?
I would think if God exists, he would understand how you and I might differ on whether a claimed historical event actually happened or not.
I think you need to add "not trying to make a list" to your list.doubtingmerle said:Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven? 1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah, 2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins, 3. confesses this. 4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means]. 5. confess that you are a sinner 6. repent of your sins [whatever that means] 7. accept Jesus as your savior [whatever that means] 8. ask him to come into your heart. 9. Have faith in his blood. 10. Get on board with the project. [whatever that means] 11. Trust what God is doing. 12. Become a part of what God is doing. [By doing good works?] Feel free to remove anything from this list that does not belong. And if there are additional requirements for heaven, please add them to the list. I want to get the list right. Thanks.
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