What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,073
604
65
Michigan
✟308,960.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your response is not very Christian. Do you always expect a response? If he found in your post an answer wouldn't that be enough. Expecting credit for actions is not Christian either. If i get an answer i don't necessarily respond. Most don't expect accolades i think.

Fascinating. Clergy committing sexual crimes against others isn't worthy of even a small rebuke from you as non-Christian like behavior. But when I ask that a person who responds to my posts, to actually address my post, that behavior is "non-Christian". I wasn't asking for accolades or credit, just simple common curtesy. I'm sorry you were offended by the request.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,703
2,335
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟467,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
If a man truly believes in the God who Sent His Son, their behavior will change from mocking and indifference, to respect and obedience...

Of course, if one really doesn't believe in this God, there would be no reverence or respect, and this person could mock God and His inspired Word or call Him Lord but refuse to abide by His Righteousness, with no fear at all.
Wait, what?

All who believe in Jesus are always respectful and obedient?

And all who don't believe will have no respect and will refuse to live in basic human dignity?

I disagree. There are many good atheists out there. And there are many within Christianity who have committed crimes. There is plenty of good and bad in all groups of people.

Your words say that all true Christians are morally better than all true atheists. I disagree.
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
672
140
63
Detroit
✟21,661.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In that case, is believing in Jesus sufficient to go to heaven, or isn't it? Does one need more?
I'm glad you asked this question in 2023, because I was directed to the OP, which was posted in 2013.
You asked a good question, and made some good points.

The Bible tells us the requirements for going to heaven. John 3:3-5
For details on what that involves please see here, here, here, and here.

If it were a case of believing, the demons would get back in heaven. James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that - and shudder.
 
Upvote 0

Matt5

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2019
816
298
Zürich
✟127,223.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Wait, what?

All who believe in Jesus are always respectful and obedient?

And all who don't believe will have no respect and will refuse to live in basic human dignity?

I disagree. There are many good atheists out there. And there are many within Christianity who have committed crimes. There is plenty of good and bad in all groups of people.

Your words say that all true Christians are morally better than all true atheists. I disagree.

While atheists do good, they also undermine the entire foundation of society via the religion of equality. So they get zero credit for their goodness. Stop digging the hold deeper, then we can talk about credit.

We're not going to heaven. We're going to the Kingdom of Heaven, aka Kingdom of God. This kingdom is here on Earth. Who may enter this kingdom?

You have to dodge multiple big wars and avoid being fooled by the fake Jesus. The West is not going to survive this.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,073
604
65
Michigan
✟308,960.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Uh, no, my example was not one of pedophiles becoming Christian preachers. It is a simple fact that hundreds have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes. They were every bit as much of a believer as you are. But they broke a commandment.

Clergy, or "Christian preachers" are men who have chosen to partake of this world's Religious Businesses. They are required by most religious franchises, including Catholic, Baptist, Adventist etc., there are too many to count them all today, to complete religious courses from approved religious schools, so they can learn how to promote which ever religious philosophy, traditions or doctrines of the specific religion they have adopted. They must be "Ordained" by these various religions before becoming one of the "hundreds (who) have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes"

To correct a small indiscretion on your part, I am not of this group of "believers". I have adopted the Holy scriptures as Paul advised "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works". And not the teaching of these "Many" who prophesy "in Christ's Name."

What is your evidence that all these clergymen who committed crimes were always pedophiles?

You said "Hundreds of clergy have been convicted of "sexual crimes." I was replying to "your" post, according to what "You" wrote.

It has been clearly proven that pedophiles are drawn to religions, where they have easy access to children, especially summer camps, etc. Of course, not all sex "Crimes" are against children. Rape of an adult would also be a "sex crime". But sexual advances towards a consenting adult is not considered a crime in America.

You said "Hundreds of clergy have been convicted of sexual crimes." I can't remember any cases of a Preacher, who has preached at the Pulpit for years, being convicted of Rape. But I can show hundreds, maybe thousands of cases where Christian Preachers have been convicted of child molestation and other forms of pedophilia, which are the most common "Sexual Crime" committed by Clergy. Were they pedophiles before they became preachers, or did they become a pedophile after they became preachers? I'm not sure the distinction is relevant.

The simple fact is that Christians do wrong, and sometimes even commit crimes. To write all these people off as false apostles seems inappropriate.

I am replying to your words. "It is a simple fact that hundreds have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes."

You are speaking to "Clergy", I posted Jesus and Paul's Words regarding those who claim to be preachers.

After all, even the Bible says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (I John 1:8)

1 John 3: 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There is a difference between a man having Sin in him, and a man sexually molesting some innocent little child, having disguised himself as an Apostle of Christ.

Surely you can see the difference.

So no, it simply is not true that people that believe in Jesus always obey the commandments.

This is true, men slip and fall.

But it is also true that if God chooses a man to represent HIM to the people of this world, that this man will not sexually assault little children. He will not murder someone. He will not steal money from poor widows or use Christ's Name to enrich himself and his friends.

Think about what you are saying here. "Just because the Baptist Preacher is a pedophile, doesn't mean God didn't send him to teach our children".

"Just because Ananias and Saphira lied about the sale of their goods, doesn't mean they aren't good Christians".

I disagree with the philosophy you are promoting here, based on what is actually written in Scriptures. There is a reason why there is greater condemnation for preachers.

Sometimes Christians disobey commandments. You must surely know that. To suggest that every person who identifies as a Christian who later breaks a commandment was never a Christian is ridiculous.

LOL, you keep moving the bar. Lets bring you back to your own words. "It is a simple fact that hundreds have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes."

To insist that the lust to molest little children, or commit sexual crimes against the innocent is so great in the hearts of men, that it is impossible for man to resist, is foolishness in my view. Personally, although I am no preacher, nor have I been ordained to promote any of this world's religions, nevertheless, I must be honest, I have no desire to molest little children or commit sexual crimes against others. My struggles lie elsewhere. I am sorry that you are plagued with such a lust, if you are. But be comforted in the Words of the Bible.

1 Cor. 10: 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

This is why it's so important to listen to Jesus' Words, even if you are convinced, they seem, as you said " inappropriate."

A man chosen and sent by God to Preach about Him, AKA, "clergy", will not be sexually abusing the children of the Flock he claims God sent him to teach. Is God not Faithful? Or have you deemed Paul a liar?

And if all Christians sometimes break a commandment, how can one claim that those others within the church that break commandments were never really Christians, while claiming that oneself is still a Christian in spite of breaking a commandment?

"All" self-proclaimed "Christians" are not Clergy. It is the Jesus "of the Bible's" Words that I posted that you disagree with, as do "many" others who come in Christ's Name. And Paul's Word regarding how to tell if someone knows God or not, is what I believe.

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Obviously the religion you have adopted, doesn't promote or believe these Words of the Jesus "of the bible", or of Paul that I have posted to answer your questions.

That is nothing new at all, as Jesus also teaches us.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So then, not according to me or my words, but according to the same Jesus many "clergy" who you said "have preached from the pulpit for years", but have committed Sexual crimes against children and others, were not sent by God at all. In fact, Jesus Himself says HE doesn't even know them.

This is why I don't listen to this world's preachers. But to the teachers I know God has chosen and sent to me through the Holy scriptures. I don't have to worry about these teachers lusting after my grandchildren, or my children, because they are "servants of God's Righteousness" and not servants to their own wicked lusts.

Thank you for actually engaging. This is a great topic, and important in my view. Feel free to ask me about my post or address it as I love to examine these kinds of things through scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,073
604
65
Michigan
✟308,960.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Wait, what?

All who believe in Jesus are always respectful and obedient?

That's not what I said. The Bible says Demons believe Jesus. Jesus Himself said "Many" deceivers will come in His Name. And Paul says satan's ministers disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ. Are they respectful and obedient? I think not.

So no, I don't believe all who claim to believe Jesus are always respectful and obedient.

But there all example of Faithful man in the Scriptures, who did change, and who did become respectful and obedient. It seems to become this man one would need to take scriptures seriously, "from the heart".

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This man changes, Yes?

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

But if man belongs to a religion in which "hundreds have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes.", then surely we should be able to see there is a problem with such a religion.

And all who don't believe will have no respect and will refuse to live in basic human dignity?

If one reads what is actually written, it's not those who claim "unbelief" that Jesus warned about. Consider His Own Words that I posted when His Disciples asked Him about the future.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus could have warned about the religion of Atheism here (self worship), or Islam or Buddhism but HE chose not to. Instead, HE warned "Specifically" about men of a specific religion. Men who "Come in Christ's Name" who Preach HE is truly the Christ. Of all the different things HE could have warned His People about in the future, HE chose to warn about "Christianity". I didn't write this script for Jesus. I just hear Him, and believe in the God who Sent Him.

Even a child can see that a Preacher who molests little children or commits sexual crimes against others is not a Preacher that we should listen to. Does not promote basic human dignity and does not possess even common respect for others.

I have no issues whatsoever with atheists. It is much better in my view, not to believe in God at all, than to claim to know Him, but promote lies about Him.

I disagree. There are many good atheists out there. And there are many within Christianity who have committed crimes.

LOL, wow, lets stick to one issue at a time here. You were talking about " "It is a simple fact that hundreds have preached from the pulpit for years, and have turned to sexual crimes."

I know several Atheists, but none that have "preached from the pulpit for years". Now you are changing gears again. Let's finish the discussion about all the Preachers in this world's religions who commit sexual crimes against others.

Men are free to choose to become their own god and can define "Good" and "Evil" based on the imagination of their own heart if they want.

I have chosen to trust God's "instruction in righteousness", but we all make a choice regarding who we serve.

There is plenty of good and bad in all groups of people.

You are free to create your own definition of these terms, and then judge people accordingly if you like. Here is what the Scriptutres, even the Apostle you quoted, tells us about one group.

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know "that we know him", if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Again, this isn't directed towards Atheists who worship their own intellect. These are men who claim to know God. This is how the Scriptures tell me I can know "if I know the Biblical God", or if I am just another deceived man who "Professes to know God, but in works I deny Him". Well one thing is for sure, If I am a self-proclaimed preacher telling others God led me to preach about Him, but I'm sexually molesting little children, or committing sexual crimes against others, then according to scriptures, I am a Liar, and the Truth isn't in me. And I don't know God, and His Son doesn't know me, and there is no Truth in me. How can I preach to others, if there is no truth in me? How can I have "Good" in me, if there is no Truth in me?

Shall I believe the sentence from the John you quoted, but not these words from the same John?

Your words say that all true Christians are morally better than all true atheists. I disagree.

There is no place where "my words" between you and I ever even addressed atheists before this post. Much less, compared them to "True Christians", whatever your definition of that is.

First you create an imaginary argument that never took place, then you declare that you disagree with it. Now come one friend. Can we not to better than this?

I am happy to discuss the religion of Atheism with you, but first I think we should conclude discussion about your statements regarding the hundreds of Clergy in this world's religions who have preached at the pulpit for years, but have turned to committing sexual crimes against others.

I think it's a great topic, and worthy of honest review and examination of Scriptutres regarding such behavior.
 
Upvote 0