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That is rich as if I have been the one evading. I will answer you pathetic attempt to try and make it seem as if I am the one the dishonest one. But you do wear my patience. Once again you state you questions poorly probably so that you can try and weasel out of them again.
Man does not as a corporate entity accept or receive God's gift of grace.
A more proper question would be: can a man choose to accept or receive God's gift of grace?
To that the answer is yes.
In fact the first sermon preached after the resurrection indicate exactly that. Peter gives a sermon that takes the listeners through the life death and resurrection of Christ and a large amount of those who heard the story believed.
As the above illustrates pretty much any of the verses that talk about believing in the Bible indicate that the person is chooses to accept or receive God's gift of grace.
Because that is what believing in God is about. Realizing that God is not your enemy, that God loves the person and that God will bring salvation to the person.
As I said before your problem is that you don't hold to any normal understanding of the words believe, faith or trust.
You see them as gifts giving rather then mental acceptance of ideas.
I think we addressed redhorse at the time. But it is good to get back to the thread purpose rather then to have to deal with the Calvinistic stuff that got us derailed. I will cease to deal with that subject here.
Not sure what you mean. Can you please demonstrate from Scripture what constitutes an "offer" versus what constitutes a "gift" with regard to the subject(s) at hand?Some seem to be confusing an offer with a gift. I wonder why we want to add so much difficulty to the work of the Creator?
The Lord rebuke you, voice of pretension, pride and haughtiness, and make you to keep silence. This voice has not been invited to this conversation and its arrogance and phony superiority posturing has no power here. Be gone, in Jesus' mighty name.That is rich as if I have been the one evading. I will answer you pathetic attempt to try and make it seem as if I am the one the dishonest one. But you do wear my patience.
Scripture states that faith itself -- salvific belief -- bes a gift from God, not the work of man:... A more proper question would be: can a man choose to accept or receive God's gift of grace? To that the answer is yes. In fact the first sermon preached after the resurrection indicate exactly that. Peter gives a sermon that takes the listeners through the life death and resurrection of Christ and a large amount of those who heard the story believed.(1) Does man choose to accept or receive God's gift of grace?
Please produce any scriptures that even remotely indicate or point to human individual "choice" figuring into this equation. We have produced many to indicate it does not, but you have not produced a single one to the contrary yet. You have merely repeatedly asserted this to be the case without one single scripture showing forth the matter plainly.As the above illustrates pretty much any of the verses that talk about believing in the Bible indicate that the person is chooses to accept or receive God's gift of grace.(2) Where in Scripture does it teach that man chooses to accept or receive God's gift of grace?
That bes a very eloquent statement of the faith that saves us indeed.Because that is what believing in God is about. Realizing that God is not your enemy, that God loves the person and that God will bring salvation to the person.
With all due respect, anyone that perceives the Gospel as nothing more than a set of ideas requiring mere mental assent has not been born again, has never tasted of the Kingdom of God, and has never truly met or encountered the risen Jesus Christ. As such, they bes not of the Body and cannot contribute to a discussion of matters pertinent to the Body because spiritual things bes spiritually discerned, and they have not been born of the Spirit.Are you teaching that faith and belief are not gifts that are presented to us ... [but] mere "mental acceptance of ideas"?
I don't profess to know how salvation works RC. All I know is that God enlightens all men...human beings when they come into the world. But the bible clearly teaches that some stumble at Christ and that they where destined to do so. Your argument is with the world of God.
(1Pe 2:6) For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
(1Pe 2:7) So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,"
(1Pe 2:8) and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
And AT that point, absent a miracle of God, they will still choose only sin.No...thats not what I am driving at. Men don't have free wills....Men have wills that have been made free. There is a difference. John 1:9 tells us that God enlightens all men who come into the world. We don't know when this happens but when it happens, the individual has then had a will that has been made free to either recieve or reject Christ. But before that point they can only choose a life of sin.
The Lord rebuke you, voice of pretension, pride and haughtiness, and make you to keep silence. This voice has not been invited to this conversation and its arrogance and phony superiority posturing has no power here. Be gone, in Jesus' mighty name.
Scripture elaborates a little further on this mystery with discussion about vessels of dishonor ... Romans 9:14-26
This bes a difficult passage to comprehend, but the upshot of it really unfolds in personal and individual experience and in recognizing the Kingdom "reversals" that Christ sets in motion -- to have mercy on the merciless, to be righteous to the unrighteous, and thereby through that power of His matchless, ceaseless, inexhaustible love and mercy, to transform them from one kind of thing into another. From children of wrath into sons and daughters of God. From vessels of dishonour into vessels of honour.
Vessels of dishonour will be redeemed by the true and living God who bes willing that NO ONE should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. Moriah bes living proof of this. And He does not always work the way humans expect, with a neat clean snap and dusting off and no more troubles. No, light descends INTO darkness in order to redeem it from the inside out, to cleanse from the inside out ... Light gets its hands filthy and grubby to the elbows, its knees and shoes in the mud and muck of sin to lift out those caught in the dire suction of the cesspit. Light does not mind getting muddy, getting dirty, being misunderstood, being maligned, being shot at, reviled, repudiated, attacked, vilified, not if He has His grasp firmly around the waist of one of His pitiful creatures, black sheep or white, and He bes worksy it out of the mire patiently and persistently. Jesus Christ never gives up, and God's mercy never expires. HALLELUJAH~~~!!!!! WHAT A SAVIOUR!!!!!
And AT that point, absent a miracle of God, they will still choose only sin.
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.Did you notice the key in verse 31?
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Moriah putsy in red to make it stand out. The joy of being called by Him bestows upon us the AWESOME and tremendous privilege of manifesting Him to those who have not yet come into the light and warmth of HIS boundless mercies. He plans and ordains that specifically through the mercy and grace WE show them, they will receive His. God allows them to continue in unbelief that WE may become involved, for OUR growth in Him and for the glory of HIS Name, to make it a praise throughout the earth, as they behold Him at work in us through the tender mercies and lovingkindness He manifests to them through us. We become the very hands and feet and lips of Jesus, the shoulders to bear others' burdens and be wet with their tears, the ears to hear their cries and the arms to lift them up and relieve their sufferings. What a tremendous privilege and awesome opportunity we have to be active participants in HIS work, and how gracious of Him to allow it!!!
And in that He has concluded ALL under unbelief that He might have mercy on ALL, we bes reminded yet again that where sin abounds, grace doth much more abound. We cannot out-sin the love and grace of God, period. This also bes a part of the good news, and it bes time to restore this full Gospel into the hands of the Body commissioned to take it into all the world. No more cringing in fear and cowardice behind stone tablets. An end to toxic soteriology and mixed wine (truth + lies) from pulpits based in the philosophies and vain deceits of men.
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