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A body that could pass through walls and doors, yes...Jesus had a physical body when he resurrected.
It's you who is being conned not me.
Like the fear you "experience" when you watch a horror movie, do you put that fear down to a supernatural God as well?
You don't push it away because it gives you comfort, you believe because you want to believe, whether it's true or not doesn't even come into it.
You interpret things "literally"... I ask you "how" did we come to know "how" we came to know "how" to interpret things "literally"... Was it not "made by" man, and is man's wisdom, understanding and knowledge based on what "he" knows and can currently understand, and NOT GOD"S...?I think you just don't want to believe it; you prefer the wisdom of man. At the first moment of God's creation, it was still very much unformed, as it did not resemble the final product.
When speaking to Nicodemus (John 3), Jesus told him you if you don't accept our (the triune God) testimony about the physical things (such as creation and the flood) how will you accept our testimony about spiritual things? Both the physical and spiritual things the Scriptures teach us are important for us to believe. It's challenging to believe the literal gospel (that Jesus literally died for the forgiveness of sins, was buried, and physically rose from the dead on the third day) if you have no historical foundation for it - that God created everything good (no death, no sin); man rebelled; death/sin came to all mankind as a result of Adam's sin (Romans 5:12) and the curse affected the whole creation (Romans 8:20-22; examples in Genesis such as thorns, suffering, diet changes, childbirth pain, relational problems, etc.); God promised a Savior (Genesis 3:15); the literal shedding of blood is necessary to cover sins (Genesis 3:21, Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22)...
In comparing the day of His return to the days of the flood, Jesus is describing the sudden death of the wicked at His return just like the rebels died in the flood of Noah's day. Many people will physically die (see Zechariah 14:12-13, Revelation 19:21) when Jesus returns, just as the people caught in the worldwide flood died.
As the man says, the ancients didn't ask the same questions we do, but fundamentalists try to read back into their minds our ways of thinking.
Yes, it was a "body" of some sort, that was or had some physicality to it at least, in that, it could be touched and felt and had the scars, but I don't think blood, but it was somewhat physical, but could also pass through "normal" matter apparently, like locked doors for example...Hey Thomas....touch me.
I would think Paul didn't ask the same questions as the ancients did. Despite that Paul told us that one man started death and sin. Paul also told us Adam was the first man formed before Eve.
John Walton would say...Paul got it wrong.
Thank you very much!First of all, it's sad to see some people hijack someone's thread. It's very inconsiderate. Neogaia asked for Theistic Evolution supporters to answer her question about what interpretations of Genesis they find work well.
Instead, some creationists jumped in to push their own agenda (which is OK, on threads that ask those questions, but not on threads that don't).
Neogaia, I'm sorry you had to put up with that behavior.
Here are some short answers about how I read Genesis that cover many doctrines of Christianity that you might find useful.
In a theistic evolution view, core Christian doctrines work quite well.
There are many theistic evolution ways to see the core doctrines of Christianity, just as there are many creationist descriptions, depending on the person and denomination. However, these may at least be common, if not exclusive.
The Garden: The Garden of Eden can be a metaphor for the natural world before humans became fully conscious/able to think. It need not have happened as a literal, single location garden, just as Ezekiel's army of bones (37) is a metaphor that never happened as a literal army of zombies.
The Fall:The fall of man can be what happened when man evolved enough mental capacity to make rational decisions, and decided to rebel against God. The consequence was alienation from God. This view is explicitly supported by the Pope, and many other Christian leaders.
Adam: Note that many theistic evolution supporters (including apparently the Pope) believe in a literal, real, single human Adam, the father of us all, who was the first transitional ape-human to cross the line to being human, who sinned and brought about original sin (not the first death). This fits with the above mention of the Fall.
The Flood: The flood can be a metaphor describing God's sovereignty over humans and the earth, and still shows those same messages either way. It need not have happened as a literal flood, just as Ezekiel's army of bones is a metaphor that never happened as a literal army of zombies.
Jesus: Jesus was a real human who was both God and Man. He often spoke in parables (metaphors) while on earth, just as he did when he, as part of the trinity, inspired Genesis. Because Genesis is the word of the same God who spoke parables while on earth as Jesus, it should come as no surprise that he starts off the Bible speaking the parables of the creation, fall and flood.
Atonement: The Atonement of Jesus is the same in either a literalist or a modern Christian's view. Jesus needed to atone for the sin of the fall, which was rebellion against God.
The geneologies in Genesis: These can be figurative, like Ezekiel's army of zombies. They pretty much have to be for a number of reasons; not just the massive evidence of an old earth, but also internal inconsistencies, like growing a handful of people from (coat) Joseph's time to the ~2 million Jews at the Exodus in a short number of years.
I hope all that helps.
Blessings of our Lord Jesus Christ-
Papias
I am working on a theory, or playing with the thought that, at some point in Genesis, or perhaps the beginning of Exodus ......... that the reality went, or transitioned from, a spiritual or symbolic interpretation or meaning of perhaps a different kind of reality to a perhaps literal or physical reality, the kind of reality we now know and are familiar with...
Yes, it was a "body" of some sort, that was or had some physicality to it at least, in that, it could be touched and felt and had the scars, but I don't think blood, but it was somewhat physical, but could also pass through "normal" matter apparently, like locked doors for example...
God Bless!
I do not for one moment suppose that you have even listened to what John Walton has to say.
So far I have no reason to watch Walton. I explained that in an earlier post. I also asked you for a minute mark where Walton is making his point and so far you have not provided me with a time.
It would also be proper for you to explain it in your own words.
I have no intention of trying to compress into a couple of sentences something it takes somebody else two hours to say.
Well, that's part of my point. If it takes 2 hours to make it make sense....I really can't be bother with it especially when the simple reading of the bible on the subject, well, is so simple.
So simple to read it to mean what you want it to mean.
It was a bodily form, different from ours, yet still a kind of flesh, (a glorified "body") that he had, or chose to have and take on, to communicate with us, "before" he ascended to Heaven, to rejoin the Father... When, "after" he ascended, "transformed" from that form into pure spirit again... That is, in the form that he originally had with the Father before the beginning of everything... That intermediate form could be the key to the difference between "heaven" and "paradise"... Paradise being full of creatures with similar forms to that form that Jesus had, or took on, before he ascended to become pure spirit with the Father in heaven (again)... Paradise being a world or realm in-between our realm, and the heavenly realm, both realms being very near and very close and connected somehow to this realm, however... Possibly...?Glorified?
It was a bodily form, different from ours, yet still a kind of flesh, (a glorified "body") that he had, or chose to have and take on, to communicate with us, "before" he ascended to Heaven, to rejoin the Father... When, "after" he ascended, "transformed" from that form into pure spirit again... That is, in the form that he originally had with the Father before the beginning of everything... That intermediate form could be the key to the difference between "heaven" and "paradise"... Paradise being full of creatures with similar forms to that form that Jesus had, or took on, before he ascended to become pure spirit with the Father in heaven (again)... Paradise being a world or realm in-between our realm, and the heavenly realm, both realms being very near and very close and connected somehow to this realm, however... Possibly...?
Also, possibly some of Genesis, could be talking about this paradise realm and it's reality, possibly... The mount of transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus could have been a glimpse into this paradise realm, possibly...? (Because Moses and Elijah had bodies)...
A theory anyhow...
God Bless!
Agreed...I don't think we can really know what the body was completely. What we do know is that the resurrected body will have some physical characteristics.
Agreed...
God Bless!
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