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What about preterism?

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In Christ Forever

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Preterism is believing most things have come to past or are fulfilled. As more people in Christ study the bible spiritually instead of thru endtime prophecy books and sites, the more richly the bible will come alive. I am not under a label,I just study the Bible only, nothing else (I pray christians will avoid entime prophecy books and sites like the "plague"!).
For example, I viewed The New Jerusalem as "symbolically" representing the HOLY SPIRIT, just as the WOMAN giving birth to the "male child" in chapt 12 of revelation, ("symbolic" of Jesus Christ being born of the Holy Spirit). Revelation almost "appears" to be a type of "history" of the birth, death and resurrection of "Christ" (possibly represented by the "2 witnesses"), then the destruction, wrath and vengeance on a "jewish city". At least that is how I have viewed it.
Revelation is devinely symbolic, and requires being studied thru the Holy Spirit and studying the whole Bible to interpret all the symbology used in it. Even the 7 churches by itself needs to be studied deeply, as they represent more than just "churches".
For example, they appear to be in "order" of the OT in some ways: Tree of life (garden of eden), second death(adam), hidden manna (hebrews in wilderness under Moses) etc.

For example, this is the only place in revelation that the words Son of God is used is of Thyatira, the only "church" doomed for destruction, no reprentance. I believe the churches are symbolic of something else even greater in revelation, but I am studying them now and feel I know what they represent. Thyatira also means "Odor of Affliction", and has Jezebel in it (study on Ahab and Jezebel).


reve 2: 18 " And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ' These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and [as] for your works, the last [are] more than the first. 20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 "And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed(symbolizing plauges and pestilence), and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 "I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

Jesus was born through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, the Holy Spirit symboizes God dwelling in His elect believers who believe unto the Faith that is of Jesus.


To show how symbolic this is, the sun represents the "light of righteouness", the moon represents "darkness" and it is under Her "feet" of Her coming down(Christ said all of His enemies would be put under his FEET).

1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

A third of the 12 "stars" are "cast down" by the "tail" of satan, BEFORE Christ is born, symbolizing possibly 4 nations being destroyed or absorbed by another nation "in the past". The moon later turns to "blood", representing a destruction on a "dark kingdom", possibly the "babylon" in revelation.
Anyway, this was one way I viewed it, but it appears to "symbolise" the Holy Spirit or the Word, coming down, much like the New Jerusalem, God dwelling with us and we with Him through His Spirit.
Heaven doesn't necessarily mean the "heaven" where God reigns, but an old type heaven on "earth".
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. ........... And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.
I just bring this up to get more Christians in Christ to study the Bible and just the Bible and draw your own spirit lead views and interpretations, not others (not even mine). I always pray to God before I even start to read, asking for wisdom and knowledge of His words (which is all Solomon wished for in the OT)

1 corin 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
 
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Brain Damage

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onlythundergivesmerest said:
Hey, what do you guys think of preterism?
It seems like it's turning into the most popular way to interpret the end times. It's pretty depressing to me.


Preterists are no different than the rest of us , they too are struggling to understand the entirety of the bible.

It's just that they haven't realized that yet...;)
 
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In Christ Forever

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quote from a poster:
"Hey, what do you guys think of preterism?
It seems like it's turning into the most popular way to interpret the end times. It's pretty depressing to me."


As long as Christians are studying the bible through the Holy Spirit and not using endtime books and prohecy sites.
I won't put up anything unless I back it up with strictly scripture, and if anyone tries to falsely interpret scripture, I will use scripture to try and prove it is false.
It is not about "labels", but what the bible truly represents as the written Word of God. I don't condemn or judge anyone on their beliefs, as God is the judge of that, but I do try to express my views and beliefs using the Holy Words of God and nothing else.
God and Jesus are spirit, so the bible must be read and studied in the spirit. It is mostly devine symbolism, so it can't be read as some ordinary book, or else the true meaning of it will never be comprehended. Depends on whether one is after the Truth in the Bible, or just reading for excitement and fun.

This shows the Spirit being poured out, I assume that happened at Pentecost and up to the present age, so if this did not come to past, the the Spirit is not with us and Christ is not the King. This shows both the House of Judah and House of Israel being joined together. Revelation also shows "2 beasts" which symbolically could represent these nations, it just depends on what revelation is symbolizing and what the Truth is of it.

Ezek 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and they will no longer be divided into two kingdoms.
Ezek 36:24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land.
Ezek 36:25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Ezek 36:26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new SPIRIT within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezek 36:27 "And I will put My SPIRIT within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Either this happened at Pentecost, or it is going to happen twice. Possible I guess, depends again on what revelation is representing and who the O My people is representing.

Ezekiel 37:13 "Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken [it] and performed [it,"] says the LORD.' "

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles Like a vessel in which [is] no pleasure.

Jeremiah 3:8 "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel [10 northern scattered tribes] had committed adultery, I had put Her away and given Her a certificate of divorce; yet her Treacherous Sister Judah[2 southern tribes] did not fear, but went and played the Harlot also.

Look up the word Harlot in any lexicon and see who God says it is representing in the Bible then you can more identify the Harlot in revelation I believe. All the prophecies are against this one Harlot in the OT.

Nahum 3:4 Because of the multitude of harlotries of the seductive harlot, The mistress of sorceries, Who sells nations through her harlotries, And families through her sorceries.



 
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Justme

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Hi Vasho and onlythunder,

Preterism is taking this verse literally.

Luke 21:30

What do I think of it? There are about six verses in the bible that do not fit into place as far as considering the great tribulation is a past event,etc.(I have no idea what that half dozen verses do mean anyway....yet.)

I have never seen a futurist last in a discussion with a preterist in all the years I have read these forums so their doctrine seems pretty sound. There are more than a half dozen verses that don't jive for the futurist group or at least are really clumsy...like dozens! I have never seen a preterist get stalled by a verse that totally goes against their idea.

Preterism is the belief that all prophecy is fulfilled although some things are on a continuing basis, such as a kingdom that will last forever and such things. I like the biblical consistancy that preterism shows, however, I describe the second coming somewhat different than a full preterist does. Meaning that I see a future fullfilment of the second coming for all people alive today.(Past fullfilment for the dead) I am not able to explain how full preterists use the term second coming, I don't undersand it well enough.

In any understanding of scripture it is necessary to make a call on what is symbolic or figurative and what should be taken literally. I like the way preterism has dealt with that. They hold the book of Revelation more to the symbolic side and take the gospels verbatim, that is how I choose to do it also. They tend to develop a biblical 'theory' from the most readable chapters or books.

So there's what I think of preterism.

Justme
 
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In Christ Forever

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quote from poster.
In any understanding of scripture it is necessary to make a call on what is symbolic or figurative and what should be taken literally. I like the way preterism has dealt with that. They hold the book of Revelation more to the symbolic side and take the gospels verbatim, that is how I choose to do it also. They tend to develop a biblical 'theory' from the most readable chapters or books.
Good posts. True Christians in the spirit will want to study scripture for Truth and nothing else.
God and Christ are Spirit, so it must be read and studied in the Spirit. Whether it is past or future, I myself want to know what the Truth is, even if it might appear all of it is past, which wouldn't affect my spiritual walk with Christ in any way. I look forward to being with Him when I die, and if we are in the Spirit of Christ, we can never really die, but it will appear to be in a "twinkle of an eye" when we are raised, as death knows no time, just as a person comes deep sleep, it is almost like a minute before he wakes up.

I have looked at this every which way under the sun and it appears to be pretty literal. So with literal verses like this, we have to try and find out what other verses are that might be figurative or symbolic. The whole Bible is like this. So do we reconcile this verse to others or reconcile other verses to this?
According to Paul, we better not get married!!! How are we suppose to be fruitfull and multiply then:scratch:

1 corin 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing [it.] For the form of this world is passing away.

 
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Mother Vashti

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In Christ Forever said:



As long as Christians are studying the bible through the Holy Spirit and not using endtime books and prohecy sites.
Chances are, those webmaster and authors did their homework on the scriptures too.
The only real way, for that reason, to figure out what's going on is to judge these messages by their fruits.

While I'm open for correction, I don't see the fruits of these movements being bad. If anything they have contributed a new vitality to christian charity and soberness, and I have yet to see any real reason for them to be ashamed of themselves.
 
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GW

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Big Mouth Nana said:
I consider it a false religion.

Outrageous.

Partial preterism is a view of eschatological passages, not a "religion." The partial preterist view is fully in line with the Nicene creed, and arises from a very OLD view that understood the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24/Mk13/Lk21) as having pertained to the apostles' generation/lifetimes (as is explicitly stated in scripture -- Matt 23:36/24:34; Mk 13:29-30; Lk 21:31-32).
 
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Hitch

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onlythundergivesmerest said:
Hey, what do you guys think of preterism?
It seems like it's turning into the most popular way to interpret the end times. It's pretty depressing to me.
Every christian is a preterist. It is only a matter of degree. All must believe Jesus Christ is the one sent (prophecyed) by God. Just as all must believe he will return in the flesh.

You didnt ask but Ill offer a quick comparison anyway that related directly to eschatological views.

The preterist will assume some sort of literal fulfillment of a 'rapture', the most obvious difference between the futurist and the preterist is, that he will reject continuing history following the 'rapture'.

Take care

Hitch
 
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Hitch

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Justme said:
Hi onlythunder,

What doctrine of preterism do you find depessing? Or if you prefer, what doctrine of some other "ism" do you find uplifting?

Justme
Come on Just ,,,you know most folks would rather keep the boogey-man,,,er AC and the GREAT TRIBULATION, so long as an uplifting (heh heh) experience is slipped in somehweres....
 
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In Christ Forever

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Mother Vashti said:
Chances are, those webmaster and authors did their homework on the scriptures too.
The only real way, for that reason, to figure out what's going on is to judge these messages by their fruits.

While I'm open for correction, I don't see the fruits of these movements being bad. If anything they have contributed a new vitality to christian charity and soberness, and I have yet to see any real reason for them to be ashamed of themselves.
The way to read the bible is to watch for parallels in the OT and NT, as the bible is mainly one big prophecy of God and Christ.
Prophecy books/movies and "rapture" sites keep going but lead more Christians away from the Book itself and one reason I avoid them like the plague.
If you don't have your own knowledge of God's book, how will you know if someone else views are right?
I spend an hour a day reading and about 3 hours studying it. It may take that long just to do one paragraph.
This is what I found when reading Solomon's songs and why the bible is such a beautifully written book, and one reason I don't dwell on prophecy too much.

This appeared to be a parallel:

Song 1:10 Your cheeks are lovely with ornaments, Your neck with chains [of gold.] THE DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM 11 We will make you ornaments of gold With studs of silver. THE SHULAMITE 12 While the king [is] at his table, My spikenard sends forth its fragrance. 13 A bundle of myrrh [is] my beloved to me, That lies all night between my breasts. 14 My beloved [is] to me a cluster of henna [blooms] In the vineyards of En Gedi. THE BELOVED

matt 26:6 And when Jesus was in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper, 7 a woman came to Him having an alabaster flask of very costly fragrant oil, and she poured [it] on His head as He sat [at the table.] 8 But when His disciples saw [it,] they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? 9 "For this fragrant oil might have been sold for much and given to [the] poor." 10 But when Jesus was aware of [it,] He said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a good work for Me. 11 "For you have the poor with you always, but Me you do not have always. 12 "For in pouring this fragrant oil on My body, she did [it] for My burial.

Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 "Or [who] shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth [and] issued from the womb; 9 When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band;
 
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Hitch

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Justme said:
Hi Mother Vasti,

Ignore all posts between Justme and Hitch. That Hitch guy knows more verses than I do, but he has a really poor handle on biblical reality. He believes that just because the bible says "jesus saves" that Christ was a goaltender.

Justme
Yeah always go for the Canuk spin,,,eh?
 
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